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7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket

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not sure if YouTube videos are allowed but you can get the full story searching this on YouTube “7700$ ebay scam black vault”

 

summary: buyer files bank chargeback against 16 year seller and gets to keep 7.7k in items for free without returning, eBays touted seller protection runs for the hills.

 

I actually had something similar happen to me when a buyer went to their bank saying not as described, eBay let them keep the item, and made me give a full refund to them, and let them continue to use eBay like nothing happened.  

shame shame shame

vote with your wallet 

 

Message 1 of 52
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51 REPLIES 51

Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket


@bonjourami wrote:

Why are you even getting involved in another seller's dealings with Ebay that you saw on a YouTube video? MYOB.


All that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.   

Message 16 of 52
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Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket

"Not True the buyers CC company has no legal rights to any of the sellers accounts. So how is it possible that eBay is not involved?"

 

A cc chargeback is involved in a sellers Ebay account? All the cc does is reverse a cc payment that the buyer made.Does it matter to who?



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“Never pick a fight with an ugly person. They don’t have anything to lose.” ~Robin Williams
Message 17 of 52
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Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket

"All that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.  "

 

Nice homily, agreed. But has nothing to do with an op posting a YouTube video on the Seller's board.



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“Never pick a fight with an ugly person. They don’t have anything to lose.” ~Robin Williams
Message 18 of 52
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Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket


@dnasilver wrote:

Not True the buyers CC company has no legal rights to any of the sellers accounts. So how is it possible that eBay is not involved?


Are you suggesting credit card companies didn't look into the legalities of chargebacks and are doing so against the law?

Message 19 of 52
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Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket

While you do see reports like this,  I'm not sure it's all that common.  I had to file a charge back in a fake tracking number case. It was not an eBay purchase.  I did win after about six months but I had to jump through hoops.  They did not just roll over and refund. 

 

Selling at that level requires business insurance. 

Message 20 of 52
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Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket

"I actually had something similar happen to me when a buyer went to their bank saying not as described, eBay let them keep the item, and made me give a full refund to them, and let them continue to use eBay like nothing happened. "

 

Which is why you shouldn't list items on Ebay which have high value. 

Message 21 of 52
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Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket

right let me forfeit 30,40,50k in yearly profits to avoid 1-3k in fraud.

Message 22 of 52
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Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket


@cellitnow_com wrote:

Right , but eBay controls the seller protection 


There's isn't any seller protection when the buyer files an INAD with their payment source.

Have a great day.
Message 23 of 52
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Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket


@dnasilver wrote:

Ken the buyers CC company has no authority to go into a sellers account. So how is it that eBay has no say?


 

No, the credit card company doesn't.

They don't have any say on what the credit card company decides and if they decide the buyer gets a refund, Ebay has to issue it.

Have a great day.
Message 24 of 52
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Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket

It's  $7700 not 7700$.

Highway Patrol - Junior Brown
Message 25 of 52
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Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket

I saw this video a few days ago.

 

The seller did several things wrong when I saw it.

 

1. Listening to Ebay Customer Service Rep.

2. No Returns doesnt mean dont do anything to protect yourself. Probably due to listening to Ebay 

3. Once you know its fraud, file report right away with local police and postal service. Just waiting does not help anyone.

 

There is hope for him though.

 

PSA graded is serialized if he graded them he needs to report all serial numbers as stolen. Spam to collectors site these numbes are stolen items. Also with that amount he should spend a few hundred for a lawyer to file lawsuit(not fight all the way) on target. Since he used CC and you have his address you can sue him with all the evidence gathered.

 

Message 26 of 52
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Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket

Ken the buyers CC company has no authority to go into a sellers account. So how is it that eBay has no say?

 

     You are correct the CC company does not have the authority but the CC company has the authority to recover the buyers funds from eBay. EBay in essence refunds the CC company and then unilaterally takes the funds from the sellers account. 

     EBay could fight the CC company but that would be risky. The CC company could easily revoke eBay's authority to allow their buyers to purchase items through eBay using their CC. Imagine if buyers could no longer use Visa or Master Card to purchase things on eBay. 

Message 27 of 52
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Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket

Credit card chargebacks require proper representations by the seller to minimize the chances of a refund without return.

 

When Ebay sends a notice of a chargeback dispute to a seller, the seller's response becomes the basis of the representation Ebay sends to the credit card issuing bank.

 

Based on that response, the buyer's complaint, credit card rules, consumer protection laws and the bank's interpretation of all of that a decision whether to back charge Ebay which back charges the seller is made.

 

If your response does not offer to refund on return of the merchandise, the decision is likely to not require the buyer to return the merchandise in order to be refunded.

 

Many sellers do not understand the process, and are so committed to their idea of justice that they fail to serve their own best interests.

 

A high dollar dispute is emotionally as well as financially taxing, but there are ways for a seller to put their best foot forward in these disputes. A YouTube video is not one of those ways.

Message 28 of 52
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Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket

     As noted by others there are a couple issues going on here. First however you should know the problem/issue is not unique to eBay or any B&M store for that matter. What is referred to as "friendly fraud" has become a $100 billion dollar a year problem. 

 

summary: buyer files bank chargeback against 16 year seller and gets to keep 7.7k in items for free without returning, eBays touted seller protection runs for the hills.

 

      In the case of an INAD eBay claim the seller protection under the eBay policies comes into play and the seller can require the return of the items before issuing a refund to the buyer. However, if the seller does nothing in response to the buyers INAD return request the buyer can ask eBay to step in and eBay will fully refund the buyer and allow the buyer to keep the item. There is also no guarantee the seller will get back what they sent or if it will be in the condition they sent it in. 

     A INAD chargeback filed through the buyers CC company is a bit of different beast. First you should realize the CC companies hate chargebacks as much as the sellers or businesses. It requires resources to deal with those and that cuts into their bottom line. A INAD chargeback only looks at the financial aspects of the transaction and nothing else. The problem is the CC companies are forced to operate under a set of Federal laws that were passed 50+ years ago. As  result CC companies have chargeback policies that you can access and review at your leisure I believe Master Card's is about 2,000 pages. 

     On the positive side CC companies do monitor cardholders chargeback history looking for abusive patterns and can revoke a cardholders account. They also monitor businesses for excessive chargeback claims and can revoke the businesses authority to permit the use of their card for purchases. 

     The only time a seller has blanket protection from a chargeback is for international sales that go through the eBay International Shipping (EIS) program. 

 

I actually had something similar happen to me when a buyer went to their bank saying not as described, eBay let them keep the item, and made me give a full refund to them, and let them continue to use eBay like nothing happened.  

 

     That tends to be the general outcome. The same is generally true with eBay claims. While I don't do it often I have opened INAD chargebacks with my CC for items I have purchased either because the business or company did not have their own process in place or because the items were counterfeit. Since it is a felony to mail counterfeit items through the US postal service I used the chargeback process since I could not return the items. 

Message 29 of 52
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Re: 7700$ stolen, no eBay seller protection, justice for blackvaultmarket

" Since it is a felony to mail counterfeit items through the US postal service I used the chargeback process since I could not return the items. "

 

Its only a felony for selling a counterfeit item thru the US mail for profit, not for returning said item.

 

18 U.S.C. 2320 lays out federal laws against trafficking in counterfeit goods, including various ways to violate the law. In proper context, “trafficking” means transporting, transferring, or disposing goods or services for commercial gain.

 

 



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“Never pick a fight with an ugly person. They don’t have anything to lose.” ~Robin Williams
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