mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
The metrics will show you:
- How often you receive return requests for "items not as described."
Greetings. I am a long time seller of t-shirts and coffee cups. In 2012, based on negative consequences of the DSR system back then, and having tried everything in the book, I finally came to the conclusion that walking away was the only logical answer. I did. Publically. The problems then were the same as today, it centered around dissatified customers. I still sold on ebay (didn't close my store) but I went close to year without lifting one single finger to grow my eBay business, instead I worked passionately on an exit plan. BUT... in mid 2013 Ebay introduced "managed returns"... Intrigued, I believed that that just might be the fix I was looking for. I opted in and noticed a remarkable difference. Buyers were still lying to get a free return so I decided if this was all over the cost of a return I'd work that into my selling equasion... so on 1/1/14 I came back to ebay with all my heart and went with a free return model. It worked wonders! Better than I could even imagine. I haven't looked back.
However, buyers are still giving fraudulent reasons for wanting the return. things like "missing parts" (on hats, mugs and t-shirts) and all kinds of other dumb reasons. I have never cared. I have never reported them. If they want a return they get it! Period. My biggest probelm was in the realm of coffee mugs. I didn't want to bring to the market the same things everyone else was doing and I found a supplier back in 2012 for a great quality plastic coffee mug. While my local hallmark store was selling it no one on eBay was... so I jumped in! About 5% of my buyers bought by looking at the picture only and expected a ceramic coffee mug regardless of the description. I worked with Laura Chambers and her team and applied all their ideas with no results. A certain segment of people were shopping picture only, not even reading the title, let alone the description and then complaining and returning the mugs as "SNAD". I've handled this just by rolling my eyes and giving out the returns. Finally on 1/1/2018 i made the decision to attempt to fix this by offering choice listings and bringing in ceramic mugs to handle the 5% who can't read. Now they have to select which one they want. So far, I've had no returns this year, but I'm not entirely through this process yet.
My concern that I want your team to strongly consider is rather or not you're putting too much "faith" in the word of the buyer and the responsibilty of the seller to overcome niave buying. My guess is that you now want us to report every buyer who gives a reason for a return that is clearly fraudualent. But I'm uneasy with that because I wanted eBay to move away from a "buyer verses seller, fight to death" world. Devin Wenig had hooked me up with Dieter Newlin back in 2014 and we had indepth discussions about this very thing. I'm thinking the closer we can get to a world where "right and wrong" doesn't matter as much as just taking care of the customer does the better off eBay will be. Now, I know we can't all get there, there are MANY models that can't embrace a "free return" world, but for those of us that can... shouldn't just taking care of our customers be the main thing? This is especially true in clothing. There is no greater way to overcome the touch and feel weakness of online shopping than standing behind our items with a free return that is mediated by eBay and guaranteed to them. Words and pictures can't over come this... trust me I've tried since 2003. We just can't always fix stupid, and we're always going to face a segment of the population that is educated on the 5th grade level scale or under and they just aren't all Harvard graduates with highest IQ's. My concern is that internal eBay is surrounded by smart people that don't reflect the real world, LOL. Rather than pitting buyer against seller, placing enimity between buyer and seller, can't we just move as close as we each can to a "free return" model and then stand behind those who offer it, knowing that if our returns are out of whack, the free market system will take us under if we don't climb on top of it ourselves? Then simply limiting returns of those who abuse the priveledge if necassary... without getting sellers involved.
To be clear, I'm not outright condemning this move, but I'm just concerned that it's, IMO, a step in the wrong direction especially for those embracing the free return model. I get returns all the time because a medium shirt doesn't fit and therefore is SNAD. I get them on hats that are "missing parts and pieces" ???? Really ????. I've gotten them on my own unique shirt sold exclusively on eBay because it "is not like the Irish shirt I bought at the mall last month" ??? Figure that one out! In the end does it matter? No... the customer want's a return and they don't even have to ask me for that... it's pre-approved and guaranteed to them by eBay! (AWESOME BTW!) A Free return is the least I can offer them on a purchase that they can't touch and feel before buying and can't try on and look at themselves in the mirror before paying. Let's make that the WINNING HAND! Because really, IT IS!
I don't mean this in a critcal manner... just ponder it internally and maybe hire a few high school drop outs to hang around you so you can learn how a sub-set of people think that will provide you smart people with quality entertainment and help you rethink some of this. 🙂 Or... go to your nearest walmart and watch people enter it through the exit doors all day long! Back in my day we didn't have motion detectors... we had mats you stepped on and the doors were one way doors with ENTER and EXIT... and if I had a dollar for each idiot I saw hit the glass in the 80's I'd be almost as rich as Mr. Wenig. LOL... Is the reason for the free return really that important???? I think not. it's more entertaining than educational. Think about it.
Danny
I am an avid supporter of Ebay and have been selling a very long time. But Ebay is NOT MY PARTNER. Ebay is a venue in which I PAY to sell on.
Let's define that word shall we:
a person who takes part in an undertaking with another or others, especially in a business or company with shared risks and profits.
Ebay does not share my risk of profit or loss and therefore is not my partner.
Ebay shares it's risk of profit and loss with its shareholders, not with its customers [sellers].
Ebay is a VENUE in which I CHOOSE to give my business to. I like selling here for the most part, but Ebay IMHO is overstepping into trying to micro manage its sellers in some respects in a short sighted effort to seek more profits by making buyers happy in the hopes they will buy more often. This is short sighted because some [certainly not all] of the policies are hurting the sellers, stiffling their profits and causing them to go elsewhere. As sellers migrate away from Ebay or diversify on the internet more, so will the buyers.
Loyalty. If Ebay would instill and promote loyalty then in the long run IMHO Ebay would see much greater benefits.
I'm aware that Ebay can not always back its sellers. That is an very unreasonable expectation. But there are things that Ebay can do but are unwilling to do that would promote the feeling of loyalty instead of damaging it more and more at every turn.
Hi all, I have read each of your comments - I connect to the pain you share from prior requirements on open requests impacting your Seller Level and am encouraged hearing all the things you do to go above and beyond for your customers. A few points to clarify:
- There are no changes to the Standards Performance Seller Program and requirements for your Seller level. Sellers are still only measured based on ensuring open requests from sellers are escalated.
I think you missed the point. I don't think any of us thinks that standards are changing within this particular Seller Update. But this update had a note on it that stated the standards in which we are evaluated on WILL change in September. So while your statement is correct, you are trying to mislead some of us into a sense of safety when in fact that is NOT the WHOLE truth.
- The upcoming Seller Metrics peer benchmark is a tool is being designed to give you a baseline on the number of requests you have from your customers. This tool will share your after-sale requests in comparison to sellers with similar listing and business size traits as yours.
I don't think anyone stated a concern about the new reports we will be able to see. Reports are tools in which each of us can decide if we want to use them or not. So for some it is a good thing and for some they just don't care. This is not part of the update that has people concerned.
- Only sellers in the peer group with the highest rate of open requests from sellers will experience the extended delivery estimates and additional fees announced this week.
This is a concern and it goes right back to your first point. And honestly I do not know why Ebay is so surprised that they are getting a push back from Sellers. When Ebay started the Request for Return program/policy, they also said that if we resolve the RR while it is in the RR stage, it will NEVER be held against the seller. Now Ebay is going back on that statement and quite honestly I don't understand why Ebay would think this is OK to do.
- Accuracy is a priority for us in this new tool. We are actively focused on accuracy to 1. Ensure you have helpful information on the requests from your customers and 2. In a scenario where extended delivery estimates and additional fees are issued are not as a result of something out of your control as a seller. We focusing on accuracy in two ways:
- Ensure up front accuracy: Based on data and input from many sellers, we are building diverse factors to determine your peer group. We account for the possibility of remorse item not as described requests by having a high minimum returns threshold.
- Quick resolution when accuracy does not cover more rare instances outside of your control: When those factors are not enough to solve for situations out of your control, we will have means to adjust your evaluation to prevent the additional fees or extended delivery estimates.
I realize that you are only doing your job and you are doing a GREAT job explaining things, but honestly your opening statement in this area rather laughable and in reality is simply not true. In application and in how Ebay actually applies certain things, nothing could be further from the truth in regards to specifically SNADs/INADs vs BR Requests. And this is a HUGE problem.
Ebay does not require a buyer to be accurate in the reason they select for filing a RR. In fact when a buyer is NOT truthful and the seller can prove it through the buyer's own words in emails in M2M and occasionally on what they actually type out as an expanded reason inside the RR that it is NOT a SNAD but in fact a BR, Ebay will do NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING. So while there are many SNADs filed by buyers out there, there are a whole lot of them that should have been BRs. So the percentages Ebay is collecting for SNADs are so out of wack it is ridiculous and it is a useless number. No accuracy at all.
You are welcome to look at my RR rate. I can tell you that out of the SNADs I've had filed, only 1 or 2 over the past couple of years have been true SNADs. All the others have been BRs disguised as a SNAD. So this is fair to sellers HOW? Ebay wants to count SNADs against us but they will do NOTHING to make sure they are a true SNAD. And Ebay wonders why sellers are upset. REALLY!!
- We hear your feedback for improving the actual returns process to prevent remorse Item not as Described return requests. We have great conversations and staff answering your questions and collecting your feedback on the discussion board on Simplified Returns. Check it out here.
This is not a new concern. It is one sellers have been upset about and voiced their opinions about for years. Why would your link provide anything new for us? Since Ebay is making this change in how stats are calculated for sellers in September, it is obvious that our concerns just fall on deaf ears. Ebay has done nothing to improve this situation, but they are certainly planning to make it worse in Sept.
