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Seller refusing to accept return on a fraudulent autograph

Purchased a KISS signed photo 2 months ago, knowing that JSA would be a at a local card show this past weekend. JSA determined that the autograph was not real. Seller is refusing to accept return stating that a court approved expert needs to look at it. This is unrealistic as a court appointed expert charges $700 an hour for their services. 

Message 1 of 12
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Seller refusing to accept return on a fraudulent autograph

Did you open a return? 

 

Reach out to your credit card company?


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Message 2 of 12
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Seller refusing to accept return on a fraudulent autograph

You had 30 days after delivery to open an item not as described case, so am presuming that that time limit has passed.  

If you paid with Paypal, you should be able to open a case there for up to 180 days.

Last chance, do a charge back on your credit card.  

Message 3 of 12
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Seller refusing to accept return on a fraudulent autograph

Does Ebay have an appeal process or a # to call?......how can a seller get away with selling fake autographs

Message 4 of 12
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Seller refusing to accept return on a fraudulent autograph

@woodchopper15  No eBay does not .... at this point it is a "he said, she said"

 

eBay does not get in the middle of buyer and sellers issues. eBay is a website.

 

You will need to file with PayPal, if you paid that way, OR your CC.

klhmdg  •  Volunteer Community Mentor
Message 5 of 12
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Seller refusing to accept return on a fraudulent autograph

Have you read the suggestions about opening a case with Paypal, or doing a charge back with your card?  

Message 6 of 12
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Seller refusing to accept return on a fraudulent autograph

If you opened a return request through ebay using the reason that the item doesn't seem authentic, the seller shouldn't have the option to deny the return.  Have you done that?

Message 7 of 12
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Seller refusing to accept return on a fraudulent autograph


@woodchopper15 wrote:

Does Ebay have an appeal process or a # to call?......how can a seller get away with selling fake autographs


@woodchopper15 

 

You'll have to tell us how the seller got one over on you. But now is not the time for retribution... it's time for a refund.

Message 8 of 12
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Seller refusing to accept return on a fraudulent autograph

I purchased the item in February knowing that JSA would be at a major card show outside of Boston. JSA examined it and found it to not be authentic. I reached out to the seller and explained the situation. He told me that he does not trust JSA and that I would need to have it looked at by a Court Approved examiner….Thus the seller closed my request to return. I did not know I only had a month, I thought I had 3 months. Honestly, I am not done with this seller yet…I will be following up negative feedback so everyone knows not to deal with him

Message 9 of 12
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Seller refusing to accept return on a fraudulent autograph

Yeppers... 30 day MBG. I'd still opt for a refund with PayPal (if you used it, 180 days) or your CC (if you used one, 180+? days)... I agree that the authenticity is the meat of the whole order. Sorry you got taken, and hoping you'll be made whole.

Message 10 of 12
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Seller refusing to accept return on a fraudulent autograph

What was the JSA objection?  Do you have other autographs with which to compare?   were they mechanically made autographs?  

 

KISS must have signed tens of thousands of these over decades in various mindstates after shows or while higher than kites - I'd show you my Van Halen autographs I got back in 1983 after the show back at the hotel  + you would just laugh at the scribbles.   

 

 

Message 11 of 12
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Seller refusing to accept return on a fraudulent autograph

As a buyer you should be covered by the eBay refund policy within the 1st 30 days.

 

Saying that I think there should be 2 time categories.

 

Because the eBay refund policy is very much buyer-focused (e.g., Sellers need a CoA from a credible service provider to claim authenticity, whilst sellers can claim that an autograph looks like a forgery or use a $5-$10 online service provider which we all know are both incredibly unreliable and often inaccurate.

 

Even when sellers fully refund buyers under the ebay refund guarantee policy,  sellers can still leave extremely damaging negative reviews and they are allowed to reference shady online reviews as evidence as it's not against ebay feedback policies.

 

Even the opinion of well known authenticity service providers should be taken with a pinch of salt. Because of the reputational risk of providing a positive opinion online pre-purchase, just to discover that the same autograph is actually a forgery during an in-person assessment after a purchase - unless an autograph is in their database, they are much more biased towards negative than positive online opinions.

 

In contrast, the lesser-known names with less or no reputational risk rely on volume and effectively tell you what you want hear. 

 

As such I agree that for general refund without at least some credible evidence, 30 days is a sufficient amount of time for buyers to request refunds under the eBay guaranteed refund policy and buyers have to honor it - no questions asked.

 

However, the second category with a longer refund period that I think should be added is when buyers can present credible evidence of something being a forgery. (For example, buyers go through the process of getting a certificate of authenticity for autographs. The reason for this is that from experience these things can take anything from a few days up to almost a month). 

 

With regards to how the cost of getting a CoA should be addressed, the answer is a bit more tricky.

 

On the one hand, the buyer knowingly purchased an item without a CoA (most likely at a price well below a similar item with a CoA) and it was the buyer's decision to spend the money on a CoA and not the sellers decision. 

 

My personal opinion is that:

a) There are a large number of forgeries on eBay

b) Although there are a decent number of sellers knowingly selling forgeries, more often than not this is not the case. More likely is that an item was acquired at some point in time by the seller thinking that it's the real thing and subsequently selling listing it on eBay with no reason to doubt its authenticity... 

 

So my personal opinion is that the seller should not be held responsible for any CoA related costs used as evidence by buyers to prove forgeries because:

a) The buyer knew the authenticity risks at the time of purchase along with the eBay refund policy timeframe rules.

b) If the CoA comes back as being authentic, the seller gets all the upside of being able to make a nice little profit - so it feels unreasonable to me that sellers should only be exposed to the downside in the event of a negative CoA but not share in any upside in the event of a positive CoA (especially since sellers have zero say in the additional cost being incurred).

c) This provides Buyers with a longer window in the event that they only start any authenticity processes mi-way through the 30-day refund period and seller will have to hold fund for longer to cover possible refunds if they sell autographed items that has not undergone any authentity process.

 

So in conclusion I believe that:

- 30 day money back guarantee (no questions asked)

- 60 day money back guarantee (max 90 days) if buyers can provide credible evidence like a CoA or something similar and sellers should remain responsible for the cost of any costs incurred post sale including costs related to evidence used to prove the lack of authenticity.

 

 

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