eBay is using AI to field reports of violations, and it's failing miserably

[polkatommy]

I'm very concerned about eBay's ineffectual use of AI because sometimes it absolutely requires a human to decipher whether or not a reported item for sale is prohibited.

For example, red and blue LED emergency vehicle lights are prohibited on eBay, but now and then they still slip under the radar because savvy sellers have learned lots of tricks to cheat the system. For example, they won't outright say the lights they're selling are red and blue, but they might post a photo with red and blue crayons next to the lights, or they'll take a photo of the product sticker on the light housing, and the sticker will reveal the color of the lights in the model number (eg. "J917-46 R/B".)

Artificial intelligence isn't smart enough decipher these tricks! It takes a human to understand what's being sold, what's the product photos are revealing, and how sellers are cheating the system. I've had success getting red and blue emergency lights pulled off the platform in years past, but since eBay started using AI, lots of reports are bouncing back with, "These listings have not been removed. This determination was made using automation or artificial intelligence. ... Please don't reply to this message."

There are now several active listings on eBay for professional-grade red and blue emergency vehicle lights because the stupid AI has no freaking clue what it's looking at.  And the form responses I've received were clearly final decisions as they've provided no option for me to appeal.

It is therefore accurate, and unfortunate, to announce that eBay's relegation of member reports to AI fosters the aiding of the dangerous crime of police impersonation. I'm not angry with the AI because it doesn't know any better. I'm angry with eBay because they do know better. What a shame.

[cowboykites1]

There is no actual “corporate intelligence”, “executive intelligence” or “board of director intelligence” at eBay.  

Anybody that thinks a company like eBay is going to deploy artificial intelligence successfully hasn’t noticed the unregulated operational abortion eBay has been for at least two decades.

Maybe eBay can spend ANOTHER 50 million on a better Booz Allen data chimp executive that UNDERSTANDS why his compensation defines him as just another inbred corporate looter dirtbag that adds no value, no substance and no growth to the eBay experience.

eBay will get more out of the shills in its “community” to deny and deflect its real issues, than it ever will applying AI to its operations.

[eburtonlab]

I would not let an AI-generated form letter discourage you from reporting listing violations.

Just because the AI was unable to identify a violation does not mean that the issue won't be looked at by a human that may come to a different conclusion.

It seems to be the case that the more independent reports about a listing eBay receives, the more likely it is that a human will wind up looking at the listing.

[polkatommy]

Thank you eburtonlab.

Unfortunately this move by eBay is discouraging because it needlessly hinders my task of keeping pro equipment out of the hands of police impersonators. What eBay did was the equivalent of stacking furniture in front of an emergency exit.

There's no point in reporting violations anymore because ultimately, this is eBay's platform; they can choose to facilitate their profiting from red & blue emergency light sales to police impersonators if they want to. It's just very disheartening when a business is willing to compromise public safety for the sake of profits.

[blurryrobot]

Plus, in this situation, there is no logical reason red and blue lights should be against policy.  They are not illegal to sell or own, and eBay is often a go to place for industrial or government entities looking for obsolete parts, or car restorers.  Is a roll of blue serge cloth against policy to sell?

[polkatommy]

I think those are good points, although were getting a little off-topic. Such lights are not illegal to buy or own, but there's a reason why you can't purchase new professional law enforcement gear from a reputable dealer without proper credentials. It's because those dealers have integrity. They are genuinely concerned about police impersonators' threat to public safety.

I think eBay once had their heart in the right place by placing those items on their prohibited list, but now they've figured out how to profit from the sale of those items... by rejecting legitimate reports of their sale using AI as their scapegoat.

I showed my boss all the reports I made last week, and I then showed him the endless string of rejection emails saying, "These listings have not been removed. This determination was made using automation or artificial intelligence." He just rolled his eyes and said don't bother anymore.

In the race to the bottom, eBay is now catering to police impersonators. That may be eBay's right, but having the right to do something doesn't always mean it's the right thing to do.

[tmorris2]

And I am experiencing the other end of this automation debacle.   I sell antique paper documents and advertising.  In the past eBay would use automation to detect POTENTIAL policy violations - but then have a human who was trained in the rules review the listing to make a determination.  Now, apparently the human review is gone.  I have had multiple listings REMOVED because they were in violation of the "Contact Information Sharing Policy".   But there was nothing even remotely close to such info in the listing.  The first time I called to have the problem resolved - everyone at  eBay that reviewed the listing agreed - there was no violation.  And yet - 6 weeks later - they haven't been able to resolve it.   TODAY... two more listing removed - same issue.  I called, and instead of a common sense reply of "yes, there is no violation, these should not have been flagged OR removed.  This is the response I got. "The listings DON'T VIOLATE and eBay POLICY - THEY JUST ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE LISTED ON eBay AT ALL".   I said -that sounds like double-speak - why aren't they allowed, if they don't violate any policies about things that can't be listed on eBay?   They DON'T KNOW - but the AI program removed them - so there must be a problem!    They now have 3 people working on it - and are escalating it!  They'll get back to me - but don't know when, because they don't know what the problem is.   When I mentioned that this particular antique document was no different than the TENS OF THOUSANDS of documents JUST LIKE IT that I have listed over the last 27 years - they again referenced that - if it was removed, then is wasn't allowed.   And here you have it.  When AI TAKES THE PLACE of trained hunmans - and the humans IN CHARGE - no longer are able to critically think for themselves - we are all in trouble.  How long until you no longer can even TALK to that human - and you're talking to AI - which will reference it's own circular logic?  

[itsjustasprain]

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@polkatommy wrote:

I showed my boss all the reports I made last week, and I then showed him the endless string of rejection emails saying, "These listings have not been removed. This determination was made using automation or artificial intelligence." He just rolled his eyes and said don't bother anymore.

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Just to be clear - after what you wrote above - plus your calling this your 'task' in another post above - is this actually a work assignment for you?

[polkatommy]

No, it wasn't an assignment. It was something I started of my own volition on personal time going back a few years, but when I explained to my boss what I was doing and showed him how successful I was at it, it was appreciated and enthusiastically encouraged. It was a task I undertook on my own free time. But now that AI summarily rejects my reports, I don't bother. "Don't bother anymore" wasn't an order, but just a shared sentiment.

I appreciate all the responses to my original post, but what it ultimately comes down to is that eBay is not in the business of public safety. They're in the business of making money off the sale of merchandise. It's fully within their right to make it easier for anyone, including police impersonators, to get their hands on professional grade red & blue emergency lights. More sales = more money. In my personal opinion, replacing humans with AI became eBay's golden excuse/scapegoat toward that endeavor.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

I WOULD discourage you from reporting most listing violations. It will accomplish nothing in most cases/

You assume there is human intelligence associated with the humans at Ebay who you can contact. You are wrong about that.  There is unlikely to be anyone you can reach who knows Ebay policy without the help of a computer. Even with that help, they are unlikely to understand how to recognize the violation.

You, as an Ebayer who has not purchased the item, is not a credible expert on the item or the policy.

Ebay is not any different from other marketplaces in such issues and how they are handled.

[atxps45]

You need to get a life. Nobody elected you the town marshal to police listings. You’re just messing with people who legitimately acquired these items through municipal auctions etc and resell in demand product. There is a huge market for off duty POVs, volunteer FD, emergency management/rescue people etc who cannot afford new equipment and rely on reasonably priced second hand equipment. I’m willing to bet you and your “boss” are the competitor of these eBay sellers at a vehicle upfitter shop. Probably selling cheap generic Feniex lights. eBay will just keep relisting the items with approved appeal. Go ahead and report them 3 times a day. Your account & IP gets flagged for excessive abuse of the reporting system every time. Just get off the computer and go outside and touch grass. 

[deltilogical]

Ebay doesn't allow you to sell purple cloth either, it is reserved for the Royals.

[eastlaneave]

@tmorris2 

Off topic of the original question but

Since you are selling ephemera, my guess is there are addresses or phone numbers in the photos or description. Here is my whole schpiel

Here are things to look for and edit to solve this:

1) Does your description mention "PayPal" if so, remove that.

2) Do you have a website URL, an email address, or a phone number in the description, the item specifics, or in the photos?
If so, remove those.

3) A series of 7 or 10 numbers that looks like a phone number?

4) An @ sign in the description?

5) A misplaced period example fitbit.ly lets go.to the mall

6) The word PO Box, Street, Avenue, or other things that could be part of an address?

7) If you copied and pasted the description, there can be a URL hidden in the text. I can explain how to remove that if needed.

Also, Customer Service is not likely to find a resolution to this for you. It makes me sad to say this, but they often say anything to get someone off the phone.

[tmorris2]

Thanks for the thoughts.  Sadly, none of these apply to my listings.  I will say though - that if the bots are looking for things like addresses and strings of numbers IN THE PHOTOS ... and that they couldn't distinguish between the actual DOCUMENT I photographed - and something ADDED.... I would have literally THOUSANDS of listings removed.  Billheads, letterheads, envelope covers, stock certificates, bank checks.  ALL of these would get flushed.  But interestingly the dozen or so listings I had taken down - did not even have anything in the photo that would have been a legitimate flag.  

And I had some fun - I cut and pasted my listing description and used an AI tool to ask if there was any hidden html.  It said no... so I actually added some html to the text and it did find it.  So pretty sure that isn't the issue either.   These are RANDOM take downs.  One I had taken down last week - there are HUNDREDS in my store - EXACTLY like it - just a different photo, and different title.  No difference other than that. 

I DID get in touch with a higher level of customer support - and they said.  1)  KNOWN ISSUE (which the first level people all said - "wow, never seen this before".  2) WORKING ON A PERMANENT SOLUTION.  (I'll believe it when I see it.  Has ANOTHER listing taken out yesterday.  

I do find it interesting that every reply I've received in community has been - well intentioned - but assumed, there must be something actually WRONG with my listings.... and not the AI program.   That was why I started the conversation.  It IS the AI program that is failing - and my NUMBER ONE CONCERN - is that the people now monitoring it - have that same attitude.  AI said there was a problem - it MUST BE RIGHT!   Case closed.   If that doesnt scare the hell out of people... well... yikes.  

[eastlaneave]

@tmorris2 

I didn't say there was something wrong with your listings, I pointed out the things bots look for.

Bot SO scan photos. Generally they are looking for the watermark type phone numbers, not details on the item, but it can be an issue.

If you want me to look at one of the similar listings that is still up, as well as the photos that are taken down, I am happy to do so.

It's not about being right or wrong, it's about avoiding problems.

Please report back when you hear from anyone at eBay.