Money not getting returned

[thumdugg3r]

My son purchased a $350-ish item last October. The seller tried to send the item to him but something went wrong at the USPS and it never went out. When the seller checked on it the USPS discovered they still had the item there, fixed the issue, and sent the item.

That item's tracking number made one stop and then completely disappeared. The USPS has no idea what happened to it or where it is and considers it lost mail.

During this time my son was working with the seller on how to resolve. The seller asked for more time which my son agreed to. Now, the seller is ghosting my son and eBay considers the matter closed and we can't get ahold of anybody at eBay.

From what we can tell the seller was never given the money because we never received the item. But we can find absolutely no way to get ahold of eBay to ask them where the money is and how to get it back. We used to be able to open a chat with them and talk with a human but now that is gone and replaced with some automated system that has no programming to handle this sort of issue.

What do we do to get this resolved? Surely it cant' be the case that eBay can just take the money for themselves. And if they handed the money over to the seller even though there was a reported issue and the package was never shown as delivered then surely that would be on them to make right ... right?

Any help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[bonjourami]

You are way past Ebays thirty day MBG, never let a seller drag an item not received on and on. If you paid at Paypal, or your cc, you have six months there to file an item not received claim, good luck.

[12345jamesstamps]

Seller got paid and has the money. Seller wanted more time...30 days...which is a deadline for a refund.

I suggest take tracking of this item to a post office and ask where is item to a clerk.

If item is indeed lost seller should do a lost insurance claim.

I am hoping you actually took tracking number to a post office to see what they say. Calling or doing the tracking online is not the way to solve the situation...or trying to connect to the buyer now.

[12345jamesstamps]

I mean the seller.

[thumdugg3r]

Yes, we went personally to the USPS and talked with the Post Master there. He looked up the tracking number and is the one that told us that the item is lost.

We were in contact with the seller but the seller has since stopped responding and eBay's current processes appear to make it impossible to actually talk to anybody to help us resolve this. This is new to us as, in the past, eBay was always available to help.

My son didn't realize that by working the seller and giving her more time he was also making it so that eBay was going to close the case after 21 days with no recourse for my son.

We are trying to dispute the charge with the credit card company and if that works then we'll consider it resolved and move on. But in the meantime we are reeling a bit having now discovered that eBay's systems and processes are now poorly implemented, timeline driven, automated systems with no visible means of human intervention.

This is especially appalling to me as I am a 20 year veteran to enterprise systems programming on financial systems and none of this makes any sense to me, at all.

[lamber9347]

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@thumdugg3r wrote:

<snip> From what we can tell the seller was never given the money because we never received the item. But we can find absolutely no way to get ahold of eBay to ask them where the money is and how to get it back. <snip> Surely it cant' be the case that eBay can just take the money for themselves. And if they handed the money over to the seller even though there was a reported issue and the package was never shown as delivered then surely that would be on them to make right ... right?

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That's not how it works when purchasing online. You are not paying eBay, you are paying the seller's account. The seller would never have shipped out an item they weren't paid for. You and your son need to read the policies for this platform if you plan on continuing to purchase items. There is a time limit for a buyer to request a refund for an item not received. You can turn to your credit card now that you never received the item you paid for, but your money was not taken by eBay, it is in the seller's account. Best of luck to you....

[thumdugg3r]

I have also sold stuff on eBay and eBay has never released the money to me until the item is confirmed arrived. Yes the buyer has to pay first but I have never, as a seller, received that money before shipping it and it arriving at its destination.

If that is another thing that eBay has changed (haven't sold anything for a couple of years now) and now they just pay the seller then that explains a lot and introduces a whole new level of danger to buying things on eBay.

And, like already mentioned, my son did engage eBay but didn't realize that eBay has changed how they have done things in the past and we wouldn't have had any reason to know things had changed so drastically.

Differing philosophies aside on how much this is all my son's fault, aside, it does look like the credit card company is accepting the dispute. So, if they come through we'll simply wait for the refund and leave the appropriately scathing feedback for the seller. Beyond this I don't know what else we can do.

I will say, though, that given how this current automated process works there is absolutely no way we can give sellers more time in the future. Which sucks. Because, especially for international orders, sometimes things take longer than they were expected to and extremely often the tracking systems don't update in a timely manner.

I don't know why eBay made these changes but I feel these are lame changes that hurt both sellers and buyers with no visible benefit to anybody ... including eBay.

Thanks for the interaction, though. This is all frustrating, and unnecessary, but it is what it is I suppose.

[lamber9347]

@thumdugg3r No one is placing blame on either of you, what we are doing is pointing out ways for you to handle and reminders that you both need to be up to date on the policies. Of course, policies have changed over the years, that's how life works. Nothing stays the same, change moves us forward. Online purchasing will be the main source of acquiring things in the future so best for your son to get used to always checking policies and looking for updates rather than expecting the same rules to apply from years ago. There is always a policy and there is always a timeline when purchasing online. Best of luck to you....

[thumdugg3r]

I think I see what you are trying to say but I admit I disagree with it.

"Buyer beware" is a real thing but, aside from food and toiletries, most everything I buy these days is online. There is absolutely no way on God's green earth that I'm going to read and "stay up to date" on every single vendor's policy changes. That is simply not practical advice and if one's business is built on making sweeping changes to the buying experience that operate in some fundamentally different way than a reasonable customer would reasonably expect them to operate in ... especially based on that business's past selling behavior ... then one does so at their own business's risk.

For me, if I can't trust the business to do the right and reasonable thing then it is, for me, a lessons learned moment and going forward I will simply choose to not buy from those markets, or sellers, and/or buy very differently.

In this case the "very differently" sucks for me as a buyer and for me as a seller. It is frustrating. Yes, that thing change in the universe is the only constant in life but that doesn't mean the changes have to be for the worse.

I'm not ranting at you or anybody that has offered advice. I'm grateful for the assists even if the take away is "yeah, sucks to be you and better luck next time".

I'm more writing with the hopes that others see it and don't have to experience what we did and that maybe, just maybe, eBay folks at a position high enough to matter might read these words and understand that, for at least some of their customers, their new way of doing things (have no idea how new it is, actually, but I was still chatting with eBay folks a couple years ago so these changes can't be all that old) was shocking to discover the hard way. Nobody made eBay changes their policies to this implementation ... they did it all themselves. It didn't have to be done this way ... eBay specifically chose to do it this way.

Presumably they had really good reasons for these changes and maybe the changes are ultimately a net positive for most everyone. In this case, though, and it might be a corner case (I really don't know one way or the other), the changes were terrible customer experience and will directly result in worse seller experiences for no reasons that are clear, or sensible, to me.

But, again, thank you for your time and best of luck in your journeys as well.

[12345jamesstamps]

Dispute the credit card charge with your banking....Glad your doing that.

When you do this it takes a few weeks for a refund.

I actually won from a bank dispute. 

eBay lets a bank dispute a charge...so now your dealing more with the bank.

Be very brief when describing the situation. I wouldn't even say it's lost. 

Just say item never received from seller.

You need to input tracking...and maybe documentation of something. Again, be brief.

I didn't have documentation to process my dispute...need a photo...I just added a photo 

of Barbie & Ken during Christmas...and I won.

[poormiddlechild]

I’m afraid I must disagree with your statement. Although I’ve had an account in good standing with EBay for 21 years, with over 200 positive feedbacks, the majority were as a buyer. Recently, I decided to sell some items, ironically many I bought on eBay 20+ years ago. Imagine my surprise when I sold several items and discovered that EBay had put a hold on the funds paid by the buyer, INCLUDING the funds assessed for shipping. They refuse to release the funds to MY account…until they have Proof of Delivery. So, essentially I must ship the items within my stated timeframe, using my own money for shipping supplies and cost of shipping, and wait until EBay has proof from tracking info OF Delivery. This is not made clear at time of listing. The supposed reason for hold is that I’m a new or infrequent seller. Yes, EBay is holding every dime. 

[poormiddlechild]

I’m very sorry your son’s experience has been so difficult. Frankly, it shouldn’t be this stressful for buyers or sellers, and these new policies are clear as mud…most likely intentionally vague. Based on my own recent re-acquaintance with EBay, I can only surmise that these “holds” are being used as a new revenue stream. Their explanations are often at odds within their own company (chat assist provides one explanation, person on phone has entirely different story). I believe it is quite possible that EBay is holding your son’s money. I have also discovered that the seller ends up on the hook for many RULEs, in spite of the fact that they often haven’t received one red cent. Not to defend your seller, as they shouldn’t have discontinued contact, but it’s entirely possible they got frustrated and simply shut down their account. In any case, I hope your bank pursues the “holder of the $$”. eBay used to be fun! Now, not so much.

[poormiddlechild]

Also, I know you’re planning to walk away from this debacle, once CC company steps in. However, I wanted to let you know that you can eventually get a real person on the phone if you begin with the Chat Assist, and just keep saying your issue has not been resolved. Eventually, you’ll receive an option to have someone call you back. Although the person who called me back just kept citing the party line, perhaps you would get more help with your problem. Good luck.

[albertabrightalberta]

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@poormiddlechild wrote:

discovered that EBay had put a hold on the funds paid by the buyer, INCLUDING the funds assessed for shipping. They refuse to release the funds to MY account…until they have Proof of Delivery. 

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Ebay does NOT put a hold on funds you use to pay for a shipping label if you're buying that shipping label through the order and using some of the buyer's payment to purchase the label. If you purchase a shipping label outside of ebay, for example, Pirate ship, ship station or USPS, you do have to front your own money for shipping.

As a new/infrequent seller, your net proceeds will be held but again, you can purchase your shipping label with those funds. 

[soh.maryl]

Per eBay's Money Back Guarantee, the OP's son had 30 days after the last estimated delivery date to open an item not received case.

Once that deadline had expired, he had 180 days to open a case with Paypal, if that's how he paid.  Or he could have done a chargeback on the credit card he used.

Evidently, all those deadlines have expired.  He can contact eBay if he wishes, but don't believe it will help.