Why does ebay allow fake Chinese coins?

[tim3737]

I reported a listing and ebay's AI said it didn't violate any policies. Are you telling me they don't have a policy against scammers and fraud? 

this is a fake Morgan silver dollar and they won't remove the listing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/405228342028?_skw=1880&itmmeta=01J86QT4HHJAWJATYV08NGRAVJ&hash=item5e597dcb...

[peacockman49]

I reported all counterfeits that I saw in a 3 or 4 week period, probably hundreds of Chinese fakes. Now ebay will not allow me to report them anymore, and ebay did nothing to remove them. Ebay needs competition.

[welike2buyandsell]

EBAY MAKES TOO MUCH MONEY BY ALLOWING THIS FRAUD TO TAKE PLACE, THEY SIMPLY DONT CARE ABOUT FRAUD. ITS BEEN BLATANTLY HAPPENING FOR OVER 20 YEARS. THESE SELLERS EVEN HAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK FOR SELLING COUNTERFEIT COINS AND EBAY STILL ALLOWS THIS TO HAPPEN. ITS SUCH A JOKE. I WISH SOMEONE WOULD HOLD EBAY ACCOUNTABLE FOR NOT REMOVING/BANNING THESE SELLERS, ESPECIALLY FROM CHINA PEDDLING THEIR FAKE PRODUCTS. THEY ARE DEPARTMENTS TO HANDLE JEWELRY WATCHES & HANDBAGS BUT COINS THEY DONT CARE ABOUT.

[juldan777]

I recently purchased 3 Peace dollars from 3 different sellers.  All 3 were from China and were fantastic deals.  All 3 sellers were brand new to eBay and had very few, if any feedback.  All 3 were very good fakes.  They were all the correct size, but weighed considerably less than a genuine Peace or Morgan dollar weigh.  Because of eBay’s money back guarantee, I took a chance on them.  I’ve purchased hundreds of US coins from eBay over the years (since 2001), so I’m very familiar with how things work.  Since this happened, I have been checking the eBay listings for both Peace and Morgan dollars and I’m seeing a disturbing trend.  Basically, every year and mint mark I check in these two type categories are littered with similar sellers who’s auctions are too good to be true.  They are all China based sellers who are brand new to eBay.  Virtually all the photos show an uncertified coin that would grade easily at MS63 or above.  They list them as F/VF and sell them at dramatically low prices.  Most all of them usually have 10 to 15 of the same coin to sell.  That alone should create suspicion I’m convinced that China has perfected a way to counterfeit these highly sought after coins, but don’t make them to the correct weight.  I’ve created cases for the three fakes I received and still have two unresolved.  I hate returning these coins because I know they will just resell them to another unsuspecting buyer.  I feel this is really a big deal because this encompasses thousands of coins.  It’s virtually unlimited.  As a side note, within the past year, my FIL has purchased several Morgan Dollar year sets from several different sellers (not on eBay) that were all located in China.  All were very nice fakes.  I know something is going on.  Can eBay do something about this trend before it gets completely out of hand?

[gosimus]

@tim3737 

< Why does eBay allow fake Chinese coins? >     

All supposedly silver coins from China are fake, especially Morgan and Peace dollars.  You can take that to the bank.  Don't keep buying them, hoping to find that one seller who doesn't know what he has and is offering it for too low. 

[eburtonlab]

Can eBay do something about this trend before it gets completely out of hand?

Short of banning coin sales altogether or having every coin go through expensive independent authentication, what could eBay reasonably do that would make it impossible for sellers to deliver a counterfeit coin?

As long as there is any possibility of a counterfeit coin being delivered by an eBay seller, buyers will have to take steps to protect themselves regardless of whatever eBay does -- such as buying from established sellers with a proven track record of similar sales, and by not buying coins from overseas, or not buying coins from inexperienced sellers that might be buying from overseas or not buying from new seller accounts that could disappear at any moment and reappear under a different name.

[lostallcents]

Ebay is not going to do anything about counterfeit coins as long as the make money on it. I've reported several and they are never removed. The simple solution to the problem is ban Sellers from China. You and I cannot list anything on the Chinese eBay site, but they can on the US site. So I believe it all comes down to the money 

[old_usa_coin_sales_from_pennsylvania]

Well I reported a Chinese Seller, selling a Capped Bust I sold, took the picture of, wrote up the description and text, that seller from China then used my pic, my text word for word, and my description said "ACTUAL ITEM COIN PICTURED WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET !" And after mutiple reports, eBay still lets this seller with a few feedbacks, who is selling a coin he/she does NOT have, as I sold it, took the pics, etc. and proved it to eBay with my item #, and they still let this no doubt FRAUDULENT listing stand... Just the fact that the seller from China says it is the Actual Coin, it should of been taken down, I prove it was my listing, I sold it, my pics, China sellers does NOT have that coin, yet I am worked hard, am Top Rated, and tanked sales, as China Coin selers dominate Best Match, giving way coins for pirces, that should put a read flag with ANY Cllector, Buyer ! So frustrating ! 

[eburtonlab]

Just the fact that the seller from China says it is the Actual Coin, it should of been taken down, I prove it was my listing, I sold it, my pics, China sellers does NOT have that coin

eBay does not actually know who took the picture or wrote the description. You may know if you took the picture or wrote the description, but eBay does not know that.

eBay did not know if you had the coin when you created the listing and sold it originally. eBay does not know that the seller in China does not have the coin. It is possible that the seller in China purchased the coin from you, or purchased the coin from the person you sold it to. You and I may think that is highly unlikely to be the case, but we cannot prove it to eBay.

Unless you still have the coin in your possession now and can demonstrate that conclusively to eBay, you cannot prove the seller in China does not currently have it and cannot sell it.

eBay is not likely to remove a listing just because you insist that you think the listing is fraudulent -- otherwise any user could have any listing removed using the same reasoning, since eBay is not in a position to judge which user, if any, is telling the truth about an item that eBay has never seen and likely will never see.

[dgmk50]

Ebay should hire someone who has numismatic skills to reject obvious fake coins from China. Often the pictures show the actual fake coin and it is easy to see it is fake. Other times they use a real photo but that is not the coin you will receive. Any collector of Morgan dollars knows you can't buy an 1893 S dollar in AU condition for $39, but a novice might not. Ebay should know. They should also know the dealer could not have sold five of them and have seven remaining. There was a time when Ebay tried to control the fakes. It seems they have completely given up trying.  

[eburtonlab]

Ebay should hire someone who has numismatic skills to reject obvious fake coins from China.

How high would eBay fees have to go to hire enough experts to reject every fake listing in every category on eBay? And how long would it take to vet over a billion listings? And re-vet them once any aspect of the listing is updated?

And what about the listings that are just copies of legitimate listings with real pictures, where the seller intends to ship counterfeits? How will those be detected without access to the items?

As long as fakes are a possibility -- and they always will be -- buyers will have to be on the lookout for that possibility, and will have to take steps to either avoid them or detect them once they are actually received.

[mudshark61369]

@dgmk50,

"Any collector of Morgan dollars knows you can't buy an 1893 S dollar in AU condition for $39, but a novice might not".

The issue with novices not knowing what they should be looking for,  happens in many collectible categories.  If they start buying collectibles online without knowing an item's value, then they did not do their due diligence.  If they have not taken the time to learn how to identify fakes, they shouldn't be buying them online in the first place.  Unfortunately, there are also seasoned collectors who see a bargain price and their common sense goes right out the window. 

"There was a time when Ebay tried to control the fakes. It seems they have completely given up trying".

The reason why ebay cannot control ALL of the fake listings, was well explained by eburtonlab. The only thing left out of that reply is the cost involved in hiring and/or training authenticators, and a place where they can work. It would drive up the cost to buyers down the road. 

As it is the Money Back Guarantee does work for buyers who receive fake/counterfeit items.

[worldcoinauctions]

What ever happened to the program where NGC was reviewing the photos of coins and giving an opinion. I wasn't active at that time but I remember the hype.

[scbad-66]

Ebay is allowing sellers in China to list fake coins and even promotes buyers to view these items after simular auctions are lost or outbid. Reports of such items or attempts to cancel purchases are denied. I was told I chose wrong reason for my return. Case closed! Then told wait until coin arrives, sure enough coin was fake. Sent test pictures to enforce Ebay guarantee, but told to beg seller with good review to entice seller to offer refund. **bleep**. informed Ebay that seller had reused photo to sell another exact fake and they did nothing saying they were monitoring this seller. **bleep** seller held auction several days buyers bid this fake above thirteen hundred and auction closed while I was being jerked around on customer service reporting the resale of the fake coin. One service agent looked at the coin listed on line and confirmed my reports comparing pics of my purchase and newly listed coin, (Stock photo) I have written and reported my situation at least 12 times even included my story while reviewing other items recieved. Have not purchased since this coin arrived and Ebay abandoned my guarantee after item tested fake. Bottom line Ebay is not buyer friendly and according to other forums not Seller friendly if you are honestly doing the right thing. I'm not giving up, plan to flood Ebay reports until justice prevails. 

[ken19342005]

Ebay does not have the true customer service with true skills to action on these fakes being sold as the real thing. What some of the responders here wrote is wrong. Ebay 'USED TO' prohibit these listings from occupying the same threads as real coins. Ebay 'USED TO" enforce policies even when one person reported it. And why? because these sellers violated Ebay policy and in these cases federal laws in the US and laws in the UK.It it illegal to sell or attempt to sell fake coins and forgeries without copy stamps on them and that is what these sellers are doing. That they are from China is irrelevant. They should not be allowed to do this on Ebay anywhere. I have reported them numerous times and nothing has changed. What the problem is, is that Ebay has not concept of customer service any longer and it impotent to action this. A report filed with the United States Secret Service (USSS), which investigates and handles counterfeit currency and coinage can get ebay's attention. 

[almond_cakes]

Too bad we can't simply BLOCK all sales from China. Come on EBAY!!