Outbid in final second

[cmhmul_74]

Hi all new to eBay,

I keep getting Outbid in final second and there is no way to place my next bid. The timer just ends and the other person wins the auction.

I will no doubt be hit with set your max bid higher next time. Well this a flawed approach because they just add £1 no matter what you bid. 

As far as I’m aware auctions should go on until the bidders stop bidding, and I assumed eBay was the same in that regard. 

Anyway my question is why do auctions work this way? How does one make sure they avoid this practice of last second outbidding and win the item? 

[albertabrightalberta]

Someone might be sniping to win or they may have put in a high proxy bid earlier in the auction so when you placed your bid in the last few seconds, their higher proxy bid got upped to outbid you.

If you weren't outbid by an earlier proxy bid, you may have been outbid by someone who also bid at the last minute but bid higher than you did.

If you post one of the item numbers, we can show you what's happening. 

[downunder-61]

Many people use a sniping program, but most will just enter a proxy bid about 5-10 minutes before the end, and set the maximum they want to pay.

If you do this, always add a small amount to avoid exact $ amounts that increase incrementally as each opposing bid is placed: You would bid $211.23 for example.

The beauty of this is that if you win YAY - if you don't, you would not have won by last second bidding anyway as you set your maximum

[ebooksdiva]

If you want to bid in an auction you should place your bid for the most you are willing to pay. 
Even that wouldn’t stop a bid sniper from bidding their highest at the last seconds of an auction. 

[downunder-61]

Also ''As far as I’m aware auctions should go on until the bidders stop bidding, and I assumed eBay was the same in that regard. ''

How would this work? This is online and people from around the world can bid, different time zones etc, you could have an auction go on indefinitely.

On a 7 day Auction eBay ENDS the auction at the EXACT time it is started 7 days earlier, right down to the 00.00.00second

[woodland_gnome]

Your awareness of how auctions work is incomplete.

eBay does not use an English Outcry auction format (bid and counterbid, going going gone to the last bidder at the full amount of the last bid) and you put yourself at a big disadvantage if you try to bid like it was such a format. eBay's auctions use a fixed-time semi-sealed-bid modified second-price (Vickery) format. This makes them fair to all potential bidders no matter their timezone or schedule. What you need to know to understand how eBay (this does not include "Live Auctions" on the eBay site which have different rules) auctions work:

The highest bidder (as of the end of the auction) wins, regardless of when his bid is placed (even if it was received in the last second and didn't show on your screen when your countdown got to 0), but the price is set by the SECOND highest bidder (generally that underbidder's highest bid plus 1 bid increment; less if the winner's bid is not a full increment higher than the underbid, including an earlier tie; more if needed to meet the reserve in a reserve listing; the starting bid amount set by the seller if there is only 1 bidder and no reserve).

During the auction eBay calculates and posts a "current bid", which is simply what the price will be if there is no further bid activity before the auction ends, and uses that "current bid" to set a minimum amount for new bids (1 increment over the "current bid" except for the very first bid, which need only be at least the "starting bid" amount set by the seller).

During and after the auction, eBay hides the full amount of the leader's/winner's bid to the extent that it exceeds that calculated price. (If the winner/leader has made multiple bids, only those that exceed the price have their full amount hidden.) For any such hidden bid amount, eBay substitutes the calculated price amount for the full amount of the bid.

When you bid less than what the current leader has bid before you (or the same amount--ties go to the earlier bid), you are immediately outbid and become the new underbidder and the "current bid" is recalculated at 1 increment higher than your bid (or the full amount of the previously hidden maximum if less than an increment over your new bid, including an earlier-placed tie). When you bid more than what current leader has bid before you, you take the lead at 1 bid increment over his/her (previously hidden) maximum (or the full amount of your bid if it is less than a full increment over his previously hidden maximum; but if it was "Reserve not met" before you bid and your bid was at least as high as the previously unmet reserve price you take the lead at the exact amount of the reserve price unless the general rule would dictate a higher price because the previously hidden maximum was less than an increment below the reserve).

Some people, including eBay, try to simplify this by drawing an analogy to an outcry auction, but one where eBay "automatically places bids on your behalf" up to your maximum bid (hence the phrase "automatic bidding"). This is an imperfect analogy, and in many cases people trying to apply it to a particular situation end up either oversimplifying or overcomplicating the process leading to many misconceptions. If you want to understand how the eBay bidding process happens you need to get away from that analogy. (It is not necessary to understand it if you know and use the following winning strategy below and are willing to accept the results as accurate even though you don't understand how they were arrived at.)

The only winning strategy on an eBay auction is to bid your real honest wouldn't-bid-an-increment-more TRUE maximum that you would pay for this particular item WITHOUT REGARD to what anyone else appears or doesn't appear to have bid. Since what anyone else has or will have bid by the time the auction ends is already figured into the price if you win, there is no need to try to figure it into your bid (other than to assume that someone else is likely to bid about the same amount as you, so it is a good tactic to bid a bit over the round number you likely have in mind as your true maximum to increase your odds of being on the winning side of what might have been a tie or a loss to someone who knows this tactic); all you need to figure is at what price point you would rather someone else get the item than you having to pay more. When you bid, early or late, or whether you put in a lesser bid(s) before your true maximum, those are tactical matters that may or may not influence the behavior of others (other bidders, potential bidders, and the seller) to your advantage or disadvantage.  Bidding very late keeps others who refuse to follow the above advice, including sellers probing the hidden maximum of the leader to increase the price artificially, from reacting to your bid.   

[khetzel]

Bid late, bid only once, and bid your max.  

By bid your max I mean don't worry about the current bid price or how cheap you might get the item for.  Worry about how bad do you want it, what is the max you would pay?  What is the price at which if it goes for more than that, you are glad you didn't win.  That is the amount you should bid. 

Then you will be happy either way.  Probably will win for significantly less than your max bid or lose by £1 if someone else wanted it worse than you.

[soh.maryl]

eBay doesn't work like an outcry or in person auction.  There is a set time for the auction to end, usually exactly a week from when it began.  An auction that started on January 8th at 9:00 PM can be expected to end on January 15th at 9:00 PM.

On eBay, the highest bid wins as long as it's within the time the listing is open for bidding.

You might consider bidding the very most you are willing to pay as close to the end of the auction as you are comfortable.  But you need to understand that another bidder may have bid way more than you and may have done it very early in the game.  eBay then uses his bid in increments to top any bid that's made until either the auction ends or the bid runs out.  

How can you ensure that you are the winner? You can't.  Please do read more about the way bidding works on eBay.  

[m-cstuff4u]

The Ebay auction format is a hard-close timed auction. It ENDS at a specified time - there are no bidding time extensions. It has worked perfectly well for the entire history of Ebay and is NOT likely going to be changed.

If you want to be successful at winning items on Ebay, you need to bid THIS way: Determine the absolute most you would pay for the item you want. If your first inclination is that you'd pay $25, then ask yourself: "If it sold for $26, would I be upset and wish I had bid $27?" If the answer is 'yes', then you need to bid $27 in the first place. Keep asking yourself that question until you come to the point where you say to yourself: "No, I would not pay more than $x.xx for that."

When you've determined the ABSOLUTE MOST you'd pay for an item, then BID that amount, with a few odd cents thrown in to avoid ties. Bid ONCE, any time which suits you during the well-defined listing duration. You'll see reference to "snipers" or "bid sniping".  That is the practice of placing your bid at the last possible second. That strategy thwarts possible bidders who bid the way you are bidding now, by not allowing them to place another bid, as time has run out. Sniping is the preferred bidding method of many, if not most, experienced Ebayers who understand the rules.

If you've bid your absolute maximum, one of two things will happen: 1) You'll win - for a price equal to or less than your bid amount and be happy. Or: 2) Someone else will win, and you'll know that the ONLY reason they won was that they thought the item was worth more than you did. If you've bid your true maximum, you should have no regrets. (If you still HAVE regrets, it wasn't your true maximum!)

It's the highest bidder that wins, not the last bidder. I've seen items' prices jump hundreds of dollars in the last 5 seconds and the winning bidder be the first bid, placed only a few hours after the auction started. The HIGHEST bidder wins, regardless of when they placed their bid!

You can bid like I've described, or you can continue the (faulty) strategy you've been using, keep losing out and keep complaining about how "unfair" it is - your choice. Good luck in your future bidding!
*

[nobody*s_perfect]

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@cmhmul_74 wrote: ... this a flawed approach because they just add £1 no matter what you bid. ... How does one make sure they avoid this practice of last second outbidding and win the item? 

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The auction ends at the same time for everyone.  If a sniper places their bid during the final seconds of the auction, he knows he won't have a chance to place another bid. Snipers always bid their true maximum, which gives them an advantage over reactive bidders.

But at the end of the auction, the winner is the highest bidder, not necessarily the last. If the sniper outbid you, it's not because he had some secret knowledge about the amount of your bid; it's because he placed the highest bid.  That's why it makes sense to bid your true maximum before the time runs out.

[cmhmul_74]

Lots of replies here. Thanks all.

Obviously I did not know that eBay is “ hard closed timed auction system “ I like most people outside of eBay are used to auctions that allow bidding until the bidding ends and assumed this was how eBay also operates. 

Judging by the reply it seems I am falling victim to this “ Snipping technique “ ..

I put the maximum amount I was willing to pay on several items. As mentioned, it’s common sense that it would not matter what the maximum amount one places is… 

The “ snipper “ will always outbid by a tiny amount no matter what. And we have absolutely no way to stop this because the system is a “ hard closed timed action and has worked perfectly well for the entire history of eBay and won’t be changing “.  

But does it really work perfectly well ? 

In my opinion this system is completely flawed. Not only does it allow exploitation in the form of  “ snipping “ as you are all stating. It also leave sellers getting a lot less than they would have if they simply listed buy it now…

Which begs the question.. Why would anyone bother listing as auction on here? 

Rant over. 😊 I lost the auctions but I saved money…

[cmhmul_74]

 “ But at the end of the auction, the winner is the highest bidder, not necessarily the last. If the sniper outbid you, it's not because he had some secret knowledge about the amount of your bid; it's because he placed the highest bid.  That's why it makes sense to bid your true maximum before the time runs out. “ 

But if most people are placing their true maximum bid long before the auction ends it makes sense that “ Snippers “ will nearly always win right? Because they will constantly be gambling that the current bid is a maximum? ? 

[cmhmul_74]

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@m-cstuff4u wrote:

The Ebay auction format is a hard-close timed auction. It ENDS at a specified time - there are no bidding time extensions. It has worked perfectly well for the entire history of Ebay and is NOT likely going to be changed.

If you want to be successful at winning items on Ebay, you need to bid THIS way: Determine the absolute most you would pay for the item you want. If your first inclination is that you'd pay $25, then ask yourself: "If it sold for $26, would I be upset and wish I had bid $27?" If the answer is 'yes', then you need to bid $27 in the first place. Keep asking yourself that question until you come to the point where you say to yourself: "No, I would not pay more than $x.xx for that."

When you've determined the ABSOLUTE MOST you'd pay for an item, then BID that amount, with a few odd cents thrown in to avoid ties. Bid ONCE, any time which suits you during the well-defined listing duration. You'll see reference to "snipers" or "bid sniping".  That is the practice of placing your bid at the last possible second. That strategy thwarts possible bidders who bid the way you are bidding now, by not allowing them to place another bid, as time has run out. Sniping is the preferred bidding method of many, if not most, experienced Ebayers who understand the rules.

If you've bid your absolute maximum, one of two things will happen: 1) You'll win - for a price equal to or less than your bid amount and be happy. Or: 2) Someone else will win, and you'll know that the ONLY reason they won was that they thought the item was worth more than you did. If you've bid your true maximum, you should have no regrets. (If you still HAVE regrets, it wasn't your true maximum!)

It's the highest bidder that wins, not the last bidder. I've seen items' prices jump hundreds of dollars in the last 5 seconds and the winning bidder be the first bid, placed only a few hours after the auction started. The HIGHEST bidder wins, regardless of when they placed their bid!

You can bid like I've described, or you can continue the (faulty) strategy you've been using, keep losing out and keep complaining about how "unfair" it is - your choice. Good luck in your future bidding!
*

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“ Sniping is the preferred bidding method of many, if not most, experienced Ebayers who understand the rules “ 

Translates to “ experience members who understand that the rules are flawed and exploitable.. “  👍

I’m gonna get ripped here but it’s ok. I’m telling it how it is. The system is open to exploitation of its fundamental mechanics. Which is truly shocking. How this isn’t well known outside of eBay is beyond me. 

The guy literally hit the nail on the head there.  

[mudshark61369]

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@cmhmul_74 wrote:

 “ But at the end of the auction, the winner is the highest bidder, not necessarily the last. If the sniper outbid you, it's not because he had some secret knowledge about the amount of your bid; it's because he placed the highest bid.  That's why it makes sense to bid your true maximum before the time runs out. “ 

But if most people are placing their true maximum bid long before the auction ends it makes sense that “ Snippers “ will nearly always win right? Because they will constantly be gambling that the current bid is a maximum? ? 

@cmhmul_74,

A "sniper" will not win, if their maximum bid is less than the earlier bid.  Since a sniper doesn't know how high the earlier bid is they too are gambling that their one shot at placing a bid will cause them to win, making it a level playing field.  They also face the risk when bidding in the last few seconds, that due to transmission delays the auction clock could be off and their bid will not be entered before the auction ends.

   The reason most of us snipe when we can, is to try and avoid the nibble bidders (ones who bid one increment at a time) from running up the price. We also add a few odd cents to our bids in case someone else has bid the same amount earlier. Those odd cents can break a tie and win an auction.  I've won some fairly high priced auctions by as little as .01¢ 

"In my opinion this system is completely flawed. Not only does it allow exploitation in the form of “ snipping sniping“ as you are all stating. It also leave sellers getting a lot less than they would have if they simply listed buy it now…".

If for the last 28 years sellers had been complaining that they were not getting the prices they hoped to get for their items, when they auctioned them. Don't you think ebay would have made a change by now? 

  After all ebay makes the majority of its money off the final value fee of sold items. The more an item sells for the more they make off of that sale.  Snipers always tend to bid their TRUE maximum, which can in some instances run the price of an auction up by hundreds of dollars in the last couple of seconds.

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[allig602012]

Here is an auction where the winner had no earlier bids but won at the last few seconds. Item number  305468778812