Loophole that enables theft via ebay

[karesh]

People who would like to steal a large amount of money via ebay, please do not read this. This post is intended to warm buyers about a way to steal via ebay.

All sellers intending to steal from buyers need to do: alter the shipping label so the  empty box (or just an empty envelope) goes to a different address than the one attached to the tracking number. The recipient at the wrong address gets a piece of junk mail and tosses it. The package is then reported by USPS as delivered to the buyer's actual address, and eBay denies a claim that the package didn't arrive, denies the refund, and pays the seller. 

This nearly happened to me. I only got my $700 back because I thought to ask USPS for an image of the actual shipping label and they had one to provide. If USPS had not taken and stored an image of the shipping label I'd have lost $700. USPS did not care to further investigate or prosecute, so the intended thieves had nothing to fear from them. Or from ebay, as all they will do is cancel the account and take minimal steps to prevent the same people from creating another account.

If this loophole is not somehow closed then USPS delivery confirmation cannot constitute proof that a package was delivered to the buyer's address.

[bonjourami]

Getting a  USPS statement that the item was  not delivered to your address usually does the trick in these scams.

[gator08041971]

Buyers unfortunately can do a similar tactic in response in some cases.

Fortunately, the amount of bad sellers and buyers that would stoop to those extremes are relatively low.  Most of the time you just get angry buyers or sellers, that are mad for one reason or another and try simpler tactics to cheat each other instead.

Thankfully, most sellers aren't like that.

Good luck out there.

[karesh]

Until I had them check for an image of the actual shipping label USPS reported that the item was delivered to my address.

[bonjourami]

Im surprised tha they showed you that label, they usually dont disclose where the item was actually shipped, but Ebay usually accepts their statement that it wasnt delivered to your address.

[vintagecraze50]

Well now, CONGRATULATIONS on catching your scammer. Good job indeed, and let’s hope many others will be caught as well.

[karesh]

I caught them, but eBay is refusing to do anything to them other than ban them from eBay--as if they can't just set up another account. USPS doesn't care to go after them for using the mail to commit theft, either. So they're only out the amount they spent on shipping.

I did wonder if they were also attempting insurance fraud, since they insured the package, unless the "insurance" included in the tracking info was only the included $100.

[karesh]

EBay does NOT accept the buyer's word that the package wasn't received, this is my entire point.  I have a very old account with 100% feedback in more than 600 transactions and eBay still accepted the word of a seller with zero feedback over mine because USPS said they delivered it "as addressed."

This is why I'm not trying to get them to do better. My confidence in eBay's protection has been severely shaken. I won't be buying from iffy or low-feedback accounts in the future.

[mudshark61369]

@karesh,

In your last reply you wrote:

"EBay does NOT accept the buyer's word that the package wasn't received, this is my entire point... eBay still accepted the word of a seller with zero feedback over mine because USPS said they delivered it "as addressed." 

No ebay did not accept the word of the seller. You may have noticed, when you filed the original   Item Not Received (INR)  dispute, there was no place to download any information. That is because eBay can only check the tracking information for a Delivered scan. They cannot access the package's actual shipping label, because they are neither the sender or recipient, due to shipping agencies privacy policies.  Technically only the sender is supposed to be able to see the actual label info.  When ebay does deny a buyer's claim, in the message they receive letting them know that there is an Appeal button, which when used, does allow the buyer to down load additional information.

"I only got my $700 back because I thought to ask USPS for an image of the actual shipping label and they had one to provide".

Shipping labels are saved by the USPS for either 60 or 90 days from the date it was purchased. We've been dealing with the fake tracking number scams on these boards, for several years now, and this is the first time I know of, that a buyer was able to get an image of the label.  How did you get that? 

   Clerks from USPS, FedEx, UPS ...  are not supposed to give that info/image to a recipient.  If they could, the scam could easily be exposed, and would not be so popular amongst scammers, not only on ebay but on the other online 3rd party listing sites, where the site itself does not ship from its own facility, individual sellers send items from their location.  Below is a link to a topic about a fake tracking scam with instructions on how to win it. It might be worth your while to read it.

Click on the Go to best answer button in it.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Buying/Fake-Tracking-information/m-p/34266951#M475809

" I have a very old account with 100% feedback in more than 600 transactions and eBay still accepted the word of a seller with zero feedback over mine because USPS said they delivered it "as addressed".

Your length of time on the site, and 100% percentage means nothing if you only buy from an account or haven't sold from it in over a year, because buyers cannot receive negative or neutral feedback and haven't been able to since `08.  So even non payers and scam buyers have a 100% rating.

"My confidence in eBay's protection has been severely shaken. I won't be buying from iffy or low-feedback accounts in the future". 

Actually ebay's money back guarantee (MBG) works very well. However it does have its limits, one of which is shipping agencies privacy policies blocking them from information because ebay is not a party to the shipping transaction.

  There has always been issues with new/inexperienced sellers, because of their inexperience and often a lack of knowledge about ebay's policies.  I do not know what you mean by "iffy" sellers, but if you mean ones who list items with a well below trending price. That should always be a warning.

[bonjourami]

"EBay does NOT accept the buyer's word that the package wasn't received, this is my entire point."

Of course they dont, who said they did?

[mudshark61369]

---

@bonjourami wrote:

"EBay does NOT accept the buyer's word that the package wasn't received, this is my entire point."

Of course they dont, who said they did?

---

@bonjourami,

Sometimes one gets caught up on one point, when posting and doesn't think of others while replying. I'm guessing that @karesh , has forgotten what the site looked like back in the early years, pre 2000,

before tracking could be done directly from the listing in the purchase history, because the USPS and other shippers  did not have online tracking.

before buying shipping labels from ebay was available,

before tracking was included for free on most services, 

before images could be uploaded to any "claim" before they were called disputes, and before the MBG. 

Back then, if there was tracking that had a delivered scan even the U.S. based phone reps would not allow an appeal, because tracking showed Delivered.

[karesh]

Apologies if I misread a post earlier or replied to the wrong one. 

On getting an image of the label from USPS, they did black out the recipient's name and street number, but left the street name visible, was which enough as it was not mine.

[karesh]

Thank you for the detailed reply. Hopefully if I hadn't gotten the label image from USPS I would have learned about the method you describe in the linked thread.z

I got the label by emailing USPS with my suspicions that the item was not delivered to my address and asking if they had an image of the shipping label. They replied with that image, but with the recipient's name and street number blacked out. I asked for the street number, to try to retrieve the package, and they refused to provide this or to investigate this use of the mail to commit a crime further.

The street name was enough for ebay, as it was not my street. The zip code was the same. The weight was shown as "3 lbs" even though the item in the image appears to be an envelope that could not contain 3 lbs. The return address on the label--not blacked out--was in CA even though the package was mailed from GA and the item location was supposedly IL. As far as I could tell, no one by the name included with the return address--not blacked out--has ever lived at the return address. It was almost certainly bogus. The item they mailed was addressed so it would disappear without raising any flags at USPS or eBay.

Too many people will not figure out how to properly respond to this scam, making it an effective way to steal via eBay. The initial decision in favor of the seller with no acknowledgement of the potential scam or instructions in how to counter it assists the scammers, and will seriously tick off people like myself and those in the thread you linked to.

[reallynicestamps]

--as if they can't just set up another account.

Managed Payments makes this more difficult for sellers.

The new seller has to provide their SSN and checking account information to eBay to get paid.

While using the same checking account for multiple IDs is allowed, the SSN should kick a banned seller out of the system.

Providing a bank account in the same country in which the seller is registered also makes scam selling more difficult.

The "failed transaction" rate is often reported as under one percent, although reports of 40% returns on AZ may change the future numbers.

[invicto]

This just happened to me. The scam seller has a two-step shipping process, so that the first is accomplished very quickly; and then the second happens much later — e.g., I ordered a Cuisinart food processor, and 30 days later I received a tiny package from Kyrgyzstan containing two disposable makeup applicators. Ebay refunded my money, but I am seeing other listings — for the same food processor! — whose sellers' names are suspiciously similar to the one I got taken by, in that they are gibberish in English.

Part of the scam is for the seller to have a 100% rating, by selling a few nicknacks before the main play. After the money is in his hands, he cancels his account.

If the seller of an item has a 100% rating, but only 5-8 ratings, and if the item is not in North America, do not buy it.