Is there a possibility of being scammed and if there is, how would the scammer scam me in this case?

[radz3714]

I have been back and forth on this for the risk to reward so here’s the juicy cliff notes: seller is (not surprisingly), 0 feedback with 1 month account. They are selling an item in healthcare (NOT business and industrial category), in an auction that no one is bidding on but the item has 1800$ shipping. If I got the item at current auction price, it would be around 15% of what this item would be worth new. Only 1 stock photo so I message the seller and ask for actual photos. They ignore my message. I call eBay support asking if there is any way I can end up getting burned since despite all the red flags, if it was legit, the deal is too good to not at least try. eBay support says if the item doesn’t come or is damaged I will get a full refund (including shipping). So far my only concern would be that if the item comes damaged, it is around 1000 pounds so I don’t know how to return it since I don’t have a forklift or truck to move it back to the delivery station. Interested in your opinion on this. (Red flags (item way too cheap, stock photo, no seller communication, seller account newly created with 0 feedback vs eBay support reassuring me I won’t lose my money if something goes wrong plus it’s not business industrial plus the deal if legit is too good to pass up on). What do you think? I am just trying to think of any angle I could get screwed over. (And what I have thought up is if the item is broken but so heavy I will have a hard time figuring out the logistics to ship it back). Thank you all and especially experienced buyers who can give me some insight on any angles that I could get burned in this transaction.

[radz3714]

I think the real problem is the upkeep of a lot of these machines since they need certain calibration, external cyclical changes, and maintenance on a schedule to be accurate and functional. So you are right in a sense, it is a headache to keep up with it even if it is for my own personal use.

[radz3714]

I think this thread has taken a detour. Either way, I think everyone that has tried to help has given some great advice and I will likely not go through with the auction. Now, if the seller actually does a face to face zoom call and I can verify he is who he claims to be (and therefore can be tracked to social media as well as their company and website), then I would do the deal. I think based off all the information available, I have a roadmap on how to proceed. Thanks all and have a great night!

[mudshark61369]

@radz3714,

Since my last reply yesterday, you have added a lot of information, about the transaction, that would have been helpful from the beginning.  Most of us who have been trying to help since this topic was posted, probably checked your feedback profile and saw you were registered in the U.S. on it, and figured this was strictly a domestic inside the U.S. transaction.  However, a page back you finally say you are located in Canada.  You also did not indicate the seller had a local pickup option until late yesterday.

  Now I have to ask, are both you and the seller located in Canada, or is the seller in the U.S. and you're in Ca. or vice versa?   The answer could add new complexities to the transaction. 

You also keep saying you are now leaning away from making the purchase, however, there is always a "but or if" in those replies.  You have also said you cannot confirm the info I and a few others have given you about the Maximum package dimensions and weights for USPS and other service's. 

Those weights and dimensions came directly from their web sites, by doing a simple search for:

What is the maximum weight for: USPS Priority mail - Priority Mail International - USPS Ground - Ground Advantage, as well as the same one for UPS and Fed-ex shipping options. 

https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2007/html/pb22218/kit1_009.html

You can do the same starting search for  UPS or Fed-Ex - Ground and their other services. FYI, if you are in Canada and the seller is in the U.S. USPS Priority Mail does not ship across borders, USPS Priority International  service which does, has a 70 lb. weight restriction as well. You can verify that info as well.

The answers you have been receiving from ebay customer service reps. may have been completely different if you did not mention the transaction being an international one or if you did not indicate Freight Shipping or local pickup possibilities.  Their answers may be different if you do mention them, and if the reps you spoke to are located in Canada as opposed to U.S. based ones.

You indicated that you might fly to the seller's location, if everything seemed to be OK, w/ the video chat, and that you would rent an Enterprise truck to bring the item back. That still does not answer how you will load the 1,000 lb. machine on the truck, even if it has a power lift gate.  I doubt the employees of the clinic are going to help you with that.  Even if you worked out those logistics in advance, if the machine is crated, how will you be able to test it, and are you qualified to do that? You sort of brought up the installation and calibration issues in your reply to gone.c...,

If you did the pickup yourself, the seller could argue that you damaged the item during the drive back, since you did not engage a Freight service and get shipping insurance.  Have you ever loaded a truck with a 1,000 lb. item before.  You don't just slap an it on the bed and drive away. Especially, not sensitive electrictronic medical equipment.

   The MBG does not protect Local Pickup items for being not as described the same way they do shipped items. You are expected to inspect and test items at the time you pick up an item, and back out if the item does not meet expectations.

Another couple of issues are;  If you pay in Loonies (Canadian dollars) using your credit card and there is a conversion fee, that is not recoverable through ebay.  If you have the unit shipped or drive it across the border, you will run into the Canada Border Services Agency, CBSA, and have to pay the duties for the purchase on the spot at the border, or before getting it released for local delivery, once it arrives in your country if shipped.  eBay's MBG does not cover those fees if the unit doesn't work. You have to deal with the CBSA for a refund, which I'm sure will involve a lot of paperwork.

You may not like what I am about to post, but first let me explain that I was raised in the Detroit area, and have crossed the border countless times, for recreational reasons.  There is no way I can even to begin to estimate the amount of time I have spent in Canada with friends I have there in several provinces, not just in Ontario.  Because of that, I'm beginning to understand your waffling about the purchase.  I have always noticed a national mindset about "getting deals" and having trouble passing up a "bargain" in my Canadian friends and their friends. So it seems to me you have the same affliction. In this case, I strongly urge you to fight it and pass on this transaction. There aren't enough positives to make up for the negative aspects in it.

[radz3714]

Hi @mudshark61369 , first off thank you for your thoughtful response.

Yes, I am from the USA and so is the seller. The item is (according to the seller), located in an adjacent state from me. Apologies if this was confusing, I believe you may have misread my response about CAD vs USD which was a response to another poster asking if all Americans say usd vs $ sign. I was merely going off topic and pointing out that I will sometimes use usd in my denomination phrasing due to having dealt with quite a few Canadian sellers on Ebay. But I myself am American (although you are correct in your assertion that Canada has rubbed off on me as I am a frequent flyer between Canada and the USA).

One thing that you brought up that was crucial in my sway of decision was initially the weight of the item and if it was “delivered to my address but defective” scenario, how I would ship it back if usps or Fedex does not handle bigger weights/dimensions. This led to to another realization (which I can’t believe I only thought of since my last post), which is, that the seller has USPS priority expedited mail listed as the delivery method and now knowing that the weight limit is 70lbs for USPS, there is no way that this item can be shipped using that route. So either the seller literally has no idea about shipping (which is possible if they are a newbie - given the 0 feedbacks), but more probable is that they do not even care what the shipping method is if their end goal is to scam. If anything if they were planning to keep the zip code scam as one of their options, then using usps would cause more problems on my end (both since I would have to keep up with the shipping method and manually realize that I’d need the seller to overturn it into “freight” method or when the item (if it even arrives - but damaged), I would have that entire other hoop to jump through (the first mile having to pay out of pocket that you mentioned and getting the seller to comply with a shipping method that will come to my residence to pick up the defective product which is another layer of extra headache since I would have to get the seller to switch off of usps). But basically the end point is that the seller can’t even ship initially using usps and if we were to assume the latter reason (that their motive was to scam), then it would make sense to put in a shipment method that may cause more headaches for me the buyer to rectify, more problems, and more obstacles in order to get the package to me and/or ship the item back and just generally make the process difficult to get my money back.

As far as the actual pickup scenario, that’s a great question. I hadn’t thought too much into that as this sale has a time limit and (while flawed and unprepared which ups the chances of failure), I was thinking just to make sure the sale is legit and at least the item is real and I can get to it. If that step is true, then I would figure out the next step of logistics on the loading. But basically I was going to rent a truck, and due to the machine already in the clinic (based on pictures), someone would have to unlock the clinic for me to gain access and I figured there would be people and I could probably at the worst case scenario pay one or more guys some cash on site to help me tip the item over (this product has wheels so the only physical hard part would have been tipping it over into the truck and then the hard part is sliding it up to parallel which would be sort of a deadlift - I estimate from the long angle thats going to be around 60% of the total weight which means I would only need around 1 guy other than myself since I can deadlift almost 400 lbs and the machine could fit in the truck platter (being no more than 7.5 feet in height, and 4 foot in width so it would fit on the truck). But I hadn’t really planned out the precise details but that would be the gist. (Hadn’t contemplated the truck height which would matter since the higher the platform is the more weight needed to deadlift since I am essentially decreasing the length of the fulcrum which makes it harder).

As far as the MBG is concerned for pickup, I would want to test it right then and there when it’s still in the clinic (which I was planning to figure out those logistics on the next phone call with the seller to give him a heads up on how I would like to proceed).

Overall, to recap though, as you and everyone have said, there are overwhelming red flags (and some green lights) but I think the one that tipped me over to not getting the item is the fact that the shipping is usps priority mail, which as stated above, can only be one of two reasons and I believe the latter reason (willingness to scam) would be the most plausible why they would choose that shipment method given the size and weight of the package. Combined with 0 feedback, 1 month account creation, price being unnaturally low (or rather the auction closing out possibly at a price that is 1/10th the price of the actual product, voice mismatch to online videos, name of phone number in reverse trace not matching name given by seller, radio silence for the last 16 hours since I asked if the seller could do a zoom call, and.. last but not least.. the seller calling and saying is is physically in another state and is not physically with the item in question.

Of course many of you also chimed in and gave your unanimous input that there was a 99.9% chance I would get burned in one way or another (worst case losing money but at the very least having to jump through multiple hoops to get my refund).

Of course, never say never. If the seller does actually respond within the next day and we end up doing a zoom call and they turn out to be the guy listed on the linkedin page who owns the clinic, then my opinion will of course change. But barring that unlikely even actually happening, my current stance is to walk away.

Thank you to everyone who helped me reach this difficult decision. As you can imagine, I did put a lot of thought into this item over the last 2 days. But I gotta know when to walk away… when to run.. when to fold em.. when to hold em.. As the old adage goes.. “If it’s too good to be true, it probably is”.

Cheers!

[janet9988]

---

@radz3714 wrote:

Also a question for @mudshark61369 or anyone else who may know, the current auction has usps priority expedited mail as the modality for shipping which mudshark pointed out (amongst others) that this is not possible given the weight and dimensions being outside usps handling jurisdiction. Ebay agent call support said they will handle this on their end with the seller per my persistence, and also they said that at checkout, the seller will have the ability to choose a different shipment method. Is this correct? Either way, should I go for it, will be on the phone with call support every step of the way but just want a preemptive understanding if the seller can change shipping method after payment if finalized by me or ebay will be forced to step in and mandatorily change it? Also, I had asked if the usps (wrong modality) shipment and changing it by the seller would constitute an "outside courier" thereby violating ebay policy (which violates buyer protection), and they said no, it does not violate the buyer protection as the seller can change the shipment method at checkout (or I can?) not sure. If anyone has expertise on this, happy to hear your experiences. Thanks.

---

WHY continue ask these questions since you continue to only believe what ebay and the seller tell you?

[kh-jean]

Hi everyone,

This thread has been closed at the request of the OP.

Thank you for understanding.