How is this not fraudulent to have an order cancellation declined?

[maxi314]

I entered the order cancellation request within the hour of mistakenly placing it.  It was denied, claiming the item had already shipped.  It had not been shipped.  This is an eBay problem, not a Seller problem.  I don't know how the system works, but I do know that my payment form was immediately debited; that, while a tracking number was then received, the item was not, in fact shipped, and doubtful that even a shipping label had been created.

Is it not fraudulent to state that an item has been shipped?  Isn't it still true that in any contract, there is a 24 hour cancellation window?  I'm not going after fraud, here, but do want the order cancelled and my payment credited.    ?

[kensgiftshop]

---

@azaz_8302 wrote:

---

@maxi314 wrote:

I fulfilled my part of the agreement, in that my card was immediately debited, and for a product that was not, in fact, yet shipped - could not, in fact, even have an address label printed. 

It cannot be claimed that an item was shipped, and that the reason for denying the cancellation request is because it has been shipped, when it hasn't.

---

Contact your card issuer, and get your refund.

Your cardholder agreement provides refunds for canceled purchases. When you're exercising your cardholder rights -- it's not fraud.

---

The order hasn't been canceled.

Just because a buyer ask to cancel, the seller doesn't have to.

A buyer shouldn't go to their credit card just because they changed their mind.

[maxi314]

But in this case it wasn't yet shipped, and, most likely no label had been applied to anything.  Why assume I have no idea that a shipping label is required in order to ship somthing - i mean, other than a hand-addressed label.  I give up.

[maxine*j]

"Fraud" is a pretty serious accusation to make against someone.  I don't see anything except a problem of your own making, which the seller refused to fix for you. 

You made the purchase.  You changed your mind.  You wanted to cancel. Then you accuse the seller of fraud.

Now, if I'd been the seller, I would have cancelled the order immediately, added you to my BBL, and carried on.   But your seller chose to let the transaction ride, and that is his perfect right and it is not fraud.

=

[maxi314]

I did not say that there is a legal obligation to cancel within 24 hours - I said that contracts are not immediately binding.. but enough of this.  I think it is a system flaw.

[maxi314]

I did not say that it was a legal obligation to have a 24-hour cancellation window.  I said that contracts are not legally binding, immediately.  Big difference.  Also, I followed and read your link, and a Guide wrote what I copied and pasted below, and it suggests that Sellers receive the cancellation request, read it, consider making the decision, then notify eBay, eBay then tells the Buyer if the request was accepted or denied.  

I made the cancellation request before an hour had passed.  Instantly, I received the request denied notification.  Do you really think that any big seller actually even read the request?  But this is enough.  I'm done.

"If you made your purchase within the last hour and the seller has not yet shipped the order, you can start a cancellation request, asking the seller to cancel your order. Here's how:

1. Go to Purchase History and find the order you want to cancel.
2. Select the More actions from dropdown menu and select .....
3. Select .....

We'll send your request to the seller and ask them to accept or decline the cancellation within 3 calendar days. If the seller accepts, we'll then send a confirmation of cancellation to both your registered email address and your eBay Messages.

[stainlessenginecovers]

What I want to know is:

How IS IT Fraud if a seller does not permit a cancellation? What is fraudulent about it? 

Also; all that verbiage about cancelling within 1 hour- as written by eBay states 2 key words.

'REQUEST' and 'IF'. 

Bottom line- it does the seller much more good than harm to 'allow' a cancellation vs. dealing with a 'return' so there must be a reason it cannot be cancelled. 

Now, you just 'return it for refund' when it arrives. 

[myangelandmyprincess]

---

@maxi314 wrote:

I did not say that there is a legal obligation to cancel within 24 hours - I said that contracts are not immediately binding.. but enough of this.  I think it is a system flaw.

---

Contracts are immediately legally binding I'm not sure where you get the idea they aren't?   There is an offer and an acceptance a contract is formed.   Certain types of contracts (in certain states) have a cooling off period where it can be cancelled but these laws don't apply to online purchases. 

[myangelandmyprincess]

---

@maxi314 wrote:

But in this case it wasn't yet shipped, and, most likely no label had been applied to anything.  Why assume I have no idea that a shipping label is required in order to ship somthing - i mean, other than a hand-addressed label.  I give up.

---

If you have a tracking number a label has been printed. 

[dryophelia]

What a shame. To tell @maxi314  to misuse the Money Back Guarantee by lying to the seller and eBay, claiming the item is not as described. Now the seller will have to pay return shipping as well. 

And if that doesn’t work, go through the CC, lying to them, keep the item, get a refund and the seller pays an extra $20!! 

It is the responsibility of the user to understand what they are committing to with every mouse click. Not just on eBay, either.  

[fab_finds4u]

You are not paying attention to what people are telling you. Why is that?

You are saying the seller said it was shipped but you're  insisting it hasn't  been shipped. Okay, listen very carefully. A buyer can request to cancel but the seller is not obligated to cancel. Even if they're sitting there holding the package they haven't sent out the door yet, THEY DON'T HAVE TO CANCEL.  

I agree that many sellers will cancel but some sellers won't  because they are set up that as soon as an an item is won and paid the seller's distributor or fulfillment center is immediately notified to process the order, and that's an automatic process that can't be reversed.

So,,,,,, you need to cool your jets and wait for delivery. If the seller accepts returns you return it for a refund or list it.

@azaz_8302 please stop encouraging buyers how to be a scam artist.

Simply put they bid, they won, they paid. 

The seller is obligated to ship after the buyer pays.

If they file a chargeback before the item is due to be delivered that is a form of retail theft. 

[maxi314]

Update:  This may well prove my belief that it is an eBay system problem, and not the SelIers.  I contacted the Seller asking for reconsideration.  I included the time stamps from the cancellation request and the notifications I received:

1. eBay confirmed the order at 3:43 PM.
2. eBay acknowledged the cancellation request at 3:59 PM
3.eBay notified the cancellation request was denied at 3:59 PM. with the note that "We weren't able to cancel this order as the seller already shipped the item on March 7, 2022. Here's the tracking number: 9400108205499283943657."
4. I received no confirmation from your company that the order was shipped, and the tracking number is useless because it had not been shipped.
5. My card, however, was instantly debited.
6, As of this writing, hours later, the item is still not in the system; the denial of cancellation has accomplished two things: the debiting of my card; and the destruction of what might have been an ongoing Seller-Customer relationship.
7. There is no way that in the instantaneous amount of time between submitting the cancellation request and instantly receiving the denial, that anything more could have occurred other than your being in receipt of my money.

The Seller responded:  

"1. You are not correct.
2. I will happily credit you for the difference in the cost, but I have already PAID $3.81 for the shipping and this has SHIPPED. Let me know if you want the $4.62. My time is not worth dealing with you."

and then, "For the record, I didn’t deny your request to cancel, EBAY did."  So.  There it is.  Now, the slap from the Seller that their time is not worth dealing with me has turned this transaction ugly.  Not only do I not want the item, which I was going to order on another day, but I do not want the item because now there is the ugly component to the transaction.

[stainlessenginecovers]

Yes; ebay auto 'denies' if the item has already been shipped.

In the eyes of sellers and ebay, once a label has been printed, the item has been shipped (printing a label starts the shipping process- therefore YES! it's been shipped)

So, it's been shipped and is too late to cancel (unless the seller is willing to wait 3 weeks for a refund on the shipping label). 

[fab_finds4u]

You are mistaken about contracts are not immediately binding. Other than real estate and vehicles, I quote from eBay, "a bid on eBay is a legally binding contract between the buyer and the seller."   If you bid you've entered into a contract to pay if you win.  

[maxi314]

And now, the Seller has written to "threaten" that "this is the last offer I am making to offer you a refund."  What an ugly day.  What an ugly Seller.

[kathiec]

---

@maxi314 wrote:

Thank you.  I do not think the Seller refused the cancellation.  I think it is an internal eBay programming problem that involves purchase notification to Sellers, whatever generates the "item shipped" notification, that then instantly eliminates the possibility of cancelling the order.

Items that are not yet shipped, are not yet shipped - nor, even labelled for shipping.

I appreciate it that you providing information regarding INAD, etc. I will look up the meaning of INAD.   It may come as a surprise to regular eBayers, but not everyone is a "professional" eBayer.  I am not.  I may be wrong, then, in placing the blame on eBay.

---

INAD means "item not as described". It's a case you can open on eBay when you you receive an item that is different from the listing. It will force the seller to pay for your return shipping so you can be refunded. If the item you receive is what was described in the listing yet you open an INAD case, it will be you who is guilty of fraud.

If the seller accepts returns, return the item on your own dime and get your refund.