Buyers only get POSITIVE feedback??

[jjohnsonlowe]

I just got a message from ebay in "my ebay" -- all sorts of new stuff, prices, DSR -- but THIS got my goat -- soon, buyers will ONLY receive POSITIVE feedback!! Did anyone else get this message?? --

[mida-gallery]

This just occurred to me. Wouldn't it make sense for the decision makers at ebay headquarter to take a poll from the people that makes this machine turn? You know, actually find out if this is maybe a good idea before the proverbial s**t hits the fan!:^O

[artistjillian]

OK. I posted the entire message with links, and the announcements. See top threads. Our fees are going to almost double. Although listings go down by cents and no gallery fees. BIG DEAL! -- ~Jillian artist, Jillian Crider ... google me!

[poozybear*art]

"This just occurred to me. Wouldn't it make sense for the decision makers at ebay headquarter to take a poll from the people that makes this machine turn?" It would make perfect sense, which is why they haven't done it. -- Kathy

[left-brained-leonardo-aint-no-artist---]

Another persepective: At juried fine arts exhibits that usually last a month, my googling shows that the museum/gallery/site will take roughtly a 30% to 50% commission IF the piece sells. There is usually a small entry (insertion) fee. Artists need to mark up their work 4 to 5 times their time and materials. All sales are final but the buyer gets to see the piece up close and personal. 1) under the eBay's new plan, eBay's fees (their commission) is roughtly 9 - 15% including insertion fees Yes, buyers can abuse the feedback system but a no nonsense, no questions asked return policy (which is what a buy receives at an exhibit) can minimize (some buyers seem hellbent on leaving negatives) but also also the seller to keep the markup low, the price down and sell more ... very important to a new market like ACEOs and SFA. 2) from what I see there are a substantial number of ACEOs that ARE Fine Art works. Seems to be that someday there are going to be local, regional, national Juried ACEO exhibits that can made more desirable by keeping entry fees and commission low???? One key is to keep the planning and promotion of these exhibirs in the hands of artists and out of the hands of professional promoters (like eBay???) Just some left brain food from Len -- Len "Nobody goes there anymore ... it's too crowded." --- Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra, #8 "The secret of managing is keeping the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." "You could look it up" --- Charles Dillon "Casey" Stengel, "The Old Perfesser", #37

[poozybear*art]

Hmmmm . . . well I don't know if this will change anything, but some of the BIG sellers are speaking their minds. This is from an article on MSN Money: "It's too little too late," said Steve Grossberg, one of eBay's top 100 sellers and the founder and president of the Internet Merchants Association. Grossberg, a Florida-based vendor of video games, spoke by phone from a conference of 200 of North America's top eBay sellers in Washington, D.C., where incoming CEO John Donahoe announced the fee changes Tuesday. EBay makes 80 percent of its revenue from the top 20 percent of its sellers. "I think you are going to see a listing decrease, you are going to see some sellers leave the site or pull back quite a bit and think of other ways to make revenue, and it's going to backfire," Grossberg said. The article also points out how much the new fee structure will cost sellers. It's long, but worth reading: news DOT moneycentral DOT msn DOT com/ticker/article DOT aspx?Feed=AP&Date=20080129&ID=8105762&Symbol=EBAY -- Kathy -- Edited by poozybear*art at 01/30/2008 7:21 AM

[left-brained-leonardo-aint-no-artist---]

... the (unsaid) corollary to this is that the other 80% subsidize the top 20% and their discounts, with their fees for their not-as-efficient/effective listings ... -- Len "Nobody goes there anymore ... it's too crowded." --- Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra, #8 "The secret of managing is keeping the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." "You could look it up" --- Charles Dillon "Casey" Stengel, "The Old Perfesser", #37

[mreas]

The entry fee for a juried show is usually around $25. The artist pays for framing and usually pays for shipping both ways, the exhibitor usually takes about 40% commission on sales. Sales aren't all that common. The exhibitor is lucky to break even, the artist is lucky to get rejected. I got to the point where I would enter, but occasionally when I got accepted wouldn't send the work. It was just too expensive. I could still claim I'd been accepted into the show. These shows happen at different levels, but the high end national shows are used primarily by academics for exhibition record building. An exhibition record is required to obtain post-secondary teaching positions, receive tenure, and advance in academic rank. Juried exhibitions are the equivalent of publication for professors in other fields. Experienced artists see them as a necessary evil, but never as a potential source of income. You will never find lower overhead or higher traffic than eBay. Unfortunately, you will never find lower prices either. As for buyer feedback, I'm leaving all the negative buyer feedback I can before February 20. You're first Poozy. -- Edited by mreas at 01/30/2008 8:03 AM

[poozybear]

Sigh. That's what I get for placing non-serious bids. -- Kathy

[poozybear]

Darned petulant Mountie. -- Kathy

[left-brained-leonardo-aint-no-artist---]

Juried (if it's not juried it just as well might as be a flea market) 1, 2 and 3 day shows (art, crafts) offer spaces for anywhere from $50 to 75 to 100 or more per day. Can ACEOs be sold to cover the cost of the table even. My local flea market rents table (spaces) for 10-15-20-25. Anyone thing that ACEOs can be sold at a high profile $25 flea market space using a display as described in the help posts? eBay looks more and more attractive for cost. AS far as negative feedback from buyers, I have only one unfair negative with a FB score of almost 300. My answer to feednack is (1) don't leave positive feedback for any buyer from today or February 20; (2) Have an absolute 100%, no questions asked return/refund policy to virtually eliminate negative feedback from a buyer (I believe eBay will a negate negative feedback from a buyer who does not ask for a refund/return) Than again, what's more important: an absolutely spotless feedback record or cash in you PayPal account??? -- Len "Nobody goes there anymore ... it's too crowded." --- Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra, #8 "The secret of managing is keeping the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." "You could look it up" --- Charles Dillon "Casey" Stengel, "The Old Perfesser", #37

[316barri]

len,i'm afraid you are wrong on one point,buyers who don't ask for refunds CAN AND WILL leave nuetral or neg feedback.i know,i've been there! as a mentor for new sellers,what am i supposed to do????how can i recommend that they open a store,or put up an auction,when i now KNOW that anyone in a bad mood can destroy their reputation,no matter WHAT the status of the transaction is???? -- maiyuguachi..."no sweat"

[maggie2themax]

First, I'm a simpleton. That out of the way, ebay was started as an ingenious and simple way to sell whatever you didn't want to keep to a large crowd of people. Basically it IS a flea market where people come not only to find something that they haven't been able to find elsewhere, but also at a cheap price. We sell to bargain hunters (unless we sell to each other, which has been the case for most of my sales). The feedback system was suitably simple as well. Then the fees kept climbing and they changed the feedback system. They kept adding features a lot of small sellers really don't use in order show that the increased fees were justified. It just keeps getting more and more complicated and a real pain-in-the-patoot. The reason they are lowering fees is because they want to lure back the sellers they've lost. The way they keep their profits, is by almost sneaking in the raised final value fee. They only brag about the lowered listing fees in announcements. I actually first heard about the Final value changes on the news this morning. They emphasized the fact that it was a rather sneaky way of dinging the sellers, while dangling the lower listing fees like a carrot in front of our noses. Basically, its a win-win situation for ebay, whether your item sells or not. And if ebay owns Paypal, how long before the fees on our sale payments (plus shipping) will go up there as well? I check the feedback of anyone from whom I'm buying, or to whom I'm selling in order to get a feel of the person I'm dealing with (not only at ebay, but at other sites as well). What good is feedback if its restricted or favors one side over the other? How can it be an honest representation? What is the purpose of feedback like this? Its useless. It certainly isn't going to deter the non-paying bidders, and might even give them free reign to be irresponsible without the worry of being called on it. I had been thinking of starting to list a few things again, but I'm not certain its honestly worth the trouble. I'm not, nor will I ever be a power seller and ebay just isn't interested in the "little guy" any longer ... except for the money it can rake from them, that is.

[poozybear*art]

I agree with Bear. It's never happened to me, but I know MANY sellers who were just outright negged, and never contacted regarding a refund. Or negged first, and THEN contacted. Lots and lots of hotheads out there. I've done several thousand transactions on my main ID, and I've been very, very lucky. All of the really bad buyers who might have negged me got NARUd before they had the chance. After my current listings expire, I'm going to stop selling for a while until the dust settles, if it ever does. -- Kathy

[poozybear*art]

Hi Maggie. Our posts crossed, but everything you said is dead on. As a "little guy," I feel the same way. Squashed like a bug. I may continue to list my art, but as for my "flea market" ID, I think I'm done. Mr. Donahoe doesn't want any flea market items anyway, so he shouldn't mind losing my money. -- Kathy

[robertsloan2art]

Putting your art in a category with the worst performers just for being new is a huge hurdle for new artists. One of the points I wish I could make to eBay at this point is that the small sellers, new sellers and so on are the new buyers! How many of us started buying things on ebay because we started selling, found groups and started getting involved -- and then going to eBay for anything else we were looking for because it was convenient? A marketplace is a marketplace and you can't separate sellers and buyers like that without seriously hurting the number of new buyers coming in. Would I shop here if I'd had too much trouble selling? Not as likely. -- robertsloan2art -- original ACEO, OSWOA and larger artwork. A big part of life is recognizing that creativity is human. It's not limited to a special Talented few gifted and cursed by the gods to become high-paid superstars