Invoice discussion: to send or not to send, that is the question

[beastiebabe007]

Morning, all!

The purpose of this thread is to get some input from other sellers (buyers too, if any want to comment) on whether or not to send an invoice after an auction or best offer (I use IPR with BIN, so doesn't apply to that one). I have been sending them so the buyer has it for his/her records. My logic behind that comes from working in my grandparents' security company, where everything got an invoice. It was pretty much automatic. So, when I began selling on eBay, I naturally sent invoices to my buyers.

However, I have seen in some other threads that invoices are only sent if the buyer doesn't pay for a few days and could potentially be taken the wrong way. My custom has always been to send one to the winning bidder immediately following the close of my auction, just as a business practice; no snarky intentions. The invoices include a thank you, repeat my shipping terms, and give info on my return policy (all the nice topics eBay says to include in the message to buyer). Thus far, it hasn't bitten me on the rear, but I'm just looking for some input from you knowledgeable folks.

Is it offensive to buyers if I send an invoice? Or is it an acceptable business practice?

Thought about posting this in SC, but I'm more comfortable posting here. 🙂

Discussion is good, as long as its done respectfully 😉

Thanks!

[hondamedic]

Aaaaahhhhh, either eBay is cracking down on messages that are not about the auction or it's an ongoing glitch that eBay Messaging is "loosing" messages. Seen a number of posts about this issue.

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/topic/Community-Discussion-Boards/Internal-Message-System/5100020764

[pepper_rocks]

I looked and my won box was checked as real-time .Hope its not wrong. I posted about this on the technical board awhile back and someone suggested sending tech support a message(no response). A guy from Australia saw my post and sent me a message asking if I got the problem resolved because he was having the same issue and ebay didn't respond to him.

[hondamedic]

Let's not hi-jack this thread.... Let me look around & I'll report later.

[pepper_rocks]

Sounds good wouldn't want to cause anyone panic 😛

[hondamedic]

Read Neut left 04/17/11 and sellers responce.

 Neut Left For Invoices

Haven't a clue how many buyer got but none were from seller!

[ducmarc]

Invoices are not a bad thing and there's more behind the invoice. Since I own several businesses, I'd like to share some input people may or may not know and if they do, I apologize ahead  for wasting your time.  For every transaction that is completed, a paper trail is needed for IRS and/or Sales Tax Purposes. 

 

One of my companies was selected (lucky me) for a Sales Tax Audit about 4 years ago.  They wanted to check every single invoice that was done for any type of business transaction for the past year (Sales and Purchases). 

 

PayPal is easily accessible to the IRS/Sales Tax Dept for any type of transaction, and so is your bank account for the IRS or Sales Tax people to match it up to. They know how to match up income stated by the bank or other entities used and know that for any deposits/sales, there should be an invoice.  IRS generally looks at the bottom line figure of the sales, the Sales Tax Dept does not, they look at total and shipping and handling to make sure that both the item including shipping and handling has been properly charged for sales tax.  Many people make the mistake to charge only Sales Tax for the item and not shipping. 

 

Now where I am going with this is, the Sales Tax People, should they find even (1) invoice where the Sales Tax was calculated incorrectly - they are going to want to audit every single invoice that should match your sales for the year they are auditing and if you don't have all of your invoices for them to review - that's where you will get into trouble.  What will happen is the Sales Tax Department will look at the invoice that is incorrect and then for every invoice missing that you cannot produce, they will assess a penalty with fines calculated for every missing invoice whether it required collecting sales tax or not. 

 

Now that's the Seller end of it.  The Sales Tax Department does not look at just sales, they look at purchases as well.  If your State requires you to pay Sales Tax and the Seller does not collect it and pay it for you, then some how (as a business) you are required to pay that Sales Tax to your State whether it's monthly or quarterly.  In a business if you don't have Invoices showing the purchases you are electing to deduct, then you're in trouble, you may possibly then might not be able to deduct the expenses and/or the Sales Tax Dept may go ahead and calculate what tax would have been if you cannot produce an invoice.

 

An example, I own a business in Florida, I purchased "Business Invoices" through internet sales from California. I receive my invoice and my items.  I didn't look at the bottom of the invoice and just filed it away.  When the Sales Tax Department came to that invoice (knowing the purchase was there through the financial statement showing deductions for purchases for each month) and they pointed out to me that Sales Tax was not paid and that I was responsible for the 7% Sales Tax.  This was in January, my audit was at the end of the year, so not only did I have to pay that 7% in sales tax, but also I had to pay interest and penalties.  Luckily, all my other purchases had invoices and were accountable for. 

 

So for each individual that operates Ebay as a business (when you collect a certain amount a year, whether you claim to be a business or not, you are a business), copies of all invoices for selling and buying on internet sales is something you should really think about and make sure you keep a printout on hand in your files or maybe even a flashdrive. 

 

If you can't get a copy of an invoice, then the way the Packing Slips are on Ebay, will serve just as good for sellers, and if you're buying for your business and do not receive an invoice, figure out the best way for you to receive a printout of your transaction that can be filed. 

 

I've read what some people are saying about invoices, is it good to send or not.  I would advise to send because some new buyers are confused sometimes with shipping, and as one mentioned, in the message box a professional "Thank you for your business" should be sufficient for the buyer.  I wouldn't recommend entering any ultimatums because then it will get you no where.  What I do is send out an invoice, (print one out for my files), send a reminder after 3 days and on the 4th day if there is no communication, then I open an upaid item case.  That's what Ebay has told me it's there for.  I don't leave feedback until the case is closed or almost ready to be closed.  If the buyer has no communication - then I think about the possibility of blocking or if the buyer pays late, then that's fine also.  Many buyers have learned that no matter what Sellers put for payment demands, that Ebay allows four days of nothingness before the Seller can open a case, and then once a Seller opens a Case, the buyer knows they have an additional 4 days, roughly a total of 9 days per Ebay.  That really bites because no one would be able to do that in a store.  Ebay has assured me that when a case is opened up against a nonpaying buyer or even a late buyer, it does show in their account and that's what affects the "hold payment" issue with PayPal.  So eventually buyers will learn they have to behave.  So if the tools Ebay put in place are properly used, then buyers will wake up and realize this site is serious for business people. 

 

So I've learned it doesn't matter what I say anyway, instead of being demanding, I just use the system Ebay has put in place and I definitely make use of the invoices and packing slips. 

 

I know the topic was to "send or not send" but there's more to the "invoice" that people should think about. I hope my input helped a little, if not, sorry if I put anyone to sleep...lol.

[billy_biggle_fan]

Invoices are not a bad thing and there's more behind the invoice. Since I own several businesses, I'd like to share some input people may or may not know and if they do, I apologize ahead  for wasting your time.  For every transaction that is completed, a paper trail is needed for IRS and/or Sales Tax Purposes. ...

Electronic sales records will also suffice for agency audits in lieu of invoices.  It's the sales/financial data contained in these records that the agency is interested in, not the specific type of record.  I have been audited as well.  So long as you maintain good records, and comply with the law, you'll be fine.  Note that not all states require collecting sales tax on shipping.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I never invoice, except by request.  All of my sales records are maintained electronically.

Still, there is no right or wrong answer to the question of sending an invoice or not.  Each seller is free to operate as they choose to.  I choose to automate as many steps as possible.  Thus, I let eBay do the invoicing for me.

[ducmarc]

"Electronic sales records will also suffice for agency audits in lieu of invoices"

That's fine. I'm not telling people how to operate their business, just adding thoughts so brand new business people can have a heads up.  Each person should research what their State Sales Tax requirements are, that's why I stated I'm in the State of Florida.

Electronic sales records are good as long as there is no data corruption happening.  If people want to rely solely on electronic data that's fine.  But being in business 20+ years with 5 successful business, I have both and have found from time to time data lost because of corruption, but am saved because I have the paper backup. 

I'm not saying your method is right or wrong, nor mine, just anyone going into business needs to research what's best for them. As long as there are experienced people on the forum that can give good input that, then that's different ideas people can choose from that would best suit their needs.  The more information people can list about their own experiences would be good for others.

I would for one would never rely on records being kept even through Ebay because eventually information gets archived and the longer it is, the harder at times it is to get a hold of. 

[hondamedic]

This just in from the feedie board:

And before that we had a neg before the buyer even received. We sent an invoice and he got upset since eBay had already sent him one and felt we were unfairly pressuring him to pay, taht we violated policy. eBay took out much of the language, but let the neg stand, even though they told us we did not violate policy and had the right to send our own invoice. After that we stopped sending invoices and ended up w/buyers waiting until the end of 3 days before sending us email asking for an invoice so they could pay.

[docmcstuffins]

i used to send a invoice after auction was over because it would drive me crazy that someone bid at last second and knew they won but didnt pay....but started noticing people dinging my communication star although we never discussed anything so i have stopped.. their either going to pay within 4 days or not..

[hondamedic]

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Seller-Central/Buyer-Threatening-To/5200034418

I recently sold a lot of three books to this bidder. After a couple days, they didn't pay, so I sent a second invoice (which is what I usually do if I don't recieve payment after a couple of days to remind them before the unpaid item assistant turns on). Anyway, I got a message from them saying that I sent them 5 invoices, and because of that they are going to leave me negative feedback. The message:

"since I have received 5 invoices for item.....I will pay on last day possible 10/21 and leave you negative feedback!"

[hondamedic]

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Seller-Central/Was-This-Buyer/5100054286

An invoice a day will not keep the Neg at bay! Especially after filing an UID. Post #15 by BG says it all.

[hondamedic]

Occassionally I see posts about sellers sending invoices to "remind" a buyer to pay. I thought a buyers perspective on this insightful:

. Signed, the Rev. so-and-so.

OKAY. So far, 10 e-mails received in a couple days time and the item hasn't even been mailed yet, although it has been selected, won, and paid for. The only one legit in the second series, above, perhaps, is the "shipping label has been created" (although this is a silly one for me, as it doesn't say the item has been shipped, just that the shipping label has been created. It could be shipped today, tomorrow, whenever. I don't care; just tell me it's BEEN shipped, then the other shipping info at that time, that's all I need).

I expect at least one more of them, of course, when it is shipped (that is a good thing, telling me it is shipped and when). That's important, and I want that one!

Hoping I won't get more than that one more, but who knows. Anything's possible with this seller.

Needless to say, I will not be buying from this seller again, although it will have no influence on the feedback I leave, as long as I get my item, it works, and I get it reasonably promptly (within a week---it's just a CD after all, not a big item). I don't want to punish a seller for silly stuff, but I'm getting fed up with this seller, and I usually give sellers a lot of slack. Being an Ebay seller seems like a real PITA job to me, and I truly enjoy being able to find the things I find on Ebay. I'm truly thankful for many of the amazing/esoteric things I find.

So, friend sellers, I am a grateful buyer, but I don't want all this e-mail. I know not all sellers do this, thank goodness, but this is a caution to sellers who might be tempted to get "too nuts" and slam buyers with "opportunities" and fulsome praises for buying from them. Keep it polite, brief, and meaningful!

Thank for you listening. I appreciate that too!

[shapechanger32]

This is enlightening Honda!  I see the point from the buyer's perspective. 😉

[holderandco]

Hi im new to selling on eBay i sold two items got paid shipped and they got to the customer and now i am getting charged two weeks later 3.62 for the two items which i sold for 17 dollars is this normal i don't understand why im getting charged please help thanks.