Definition of "NEW"

[beckamet]

In "Toys", there's only 2 ways to list an item, NEW or USED.  The definition of NEW is: New:  The item is brand new, unused, unopened, and undamaged (including handmade items).   Is the word, "unopened" assumed to mean there has to be a box?  That's what I believe it means, but I see so many listings were the seller has "New" and there's not a box with the item, only a tag.  I've chatted with eBay about this regarding several listings I saw like this and they said they'd look into it, but nothing has changed.  Any thoughts on this?  Thank you.

[mudshark61369]

@beckamet,

eBay has different "specifics" for different categories of items, and unfortunately only two New or Used/Pre Owned, in Toys & Hobbies. It has been that way for years. If you have a new item that did not come with a box, only a tag, It will pass as new even though the item did not come in a box.

Examples of this can be found by doing a search for;

X-Plus Talos, 8" Vinyl action figure, Ray Harry Hausen.

 You will find several of those figures listed a Brand New.

eBay has also allowed items to be listed as Brand New, unused, unopened, undamaged... that were removed from  window boxed items, only to be photographed, because the "window" distorted images, reflected too much light, or didn't allow images of more than one side in the photos of the item. 

  I have had to do that for many of the vintage  items I've sold in the past, that never had stock photos of the item only or were of different color(s) of the specific item.  I do try to soften the tape's adhesive, if there is some sealing the box, so it can be lifted rather than cut, so the box can be resealed again, though sometimes that's just not possible, and I have never had a complaint about the items not complying exactly with ebay's New, unused... policy. 

  I have always mentioned having to remove the item for photos, as one of the first things in the written description.

[shado-x]

That's what I believe it means, but I see so many listings were the seller has "New" and there's not a box with the item, only a tag.

Many toys in general are released with an attached tag, from which the OEM never released a box.  There are so many toys in the world.

[beckamet]

I get that about pictures, but I KNOW for a fact all of these particular electronic toys came in a box.   Some of these sellers will even mention, "no box included", but still list is as NEW.   Personally, I just don't think this is an honest way to sell.   I've even seen sellers list as USED and a box is with the item, which is great to me.  Thank you for the reply.

[beckamet]

Yes, I'm sure they are, but as I responded to mudshark61369, these electronic toys DID come in a box.  But I do understand as well, eBay gets literally thousands of listings in the toy category.  Still, what bugs me is they only use an automation or artificial intelligence to check on these listings when reported.  Most sellers are pretty decent when you inform them that without a box, the item simply can't be NEW and they'll change it.  But of course, I run across a couple that are extremely stubborn or just plain stupid and think it's NEW because it was only displayed or used once and has a tag, even a bent tag.  Well, thank you for the reply, much appreciated.

[mudshark61369]

@beckamet,

The problem is of eBay's making, by only allowing two item conditions, in the toys and Hobbies category, New or Used, and having such a narrow definition of New and Used "The item was previously used See the seller's listing for full details..."

Open the link below.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/creating-managing-listings/item-conditions-category?id=47...

I have two 1958 Nomura, Mechanized Robot  aka "Robbie the Robot" battery Op tin toys. Both were given to me on my Birthday that year. One I played with, the other has never had a battery in it, and is in its original box, which I sliced the tape to open for display only. Once in a while I did dust it, but I dare anyone to find even a minor scratch on it. The box has no creases, crunched corners, faded colors or other flaws. A few serious collectors have seen it and drooled over it (from a distance)  and it has been photographed for a space toy price guide.

Now, what would you call that one New or Used in a listing? I have yet to open the battery compartments (one in each leg) or toggled the on/off switch so by definition it has never been used, but it would be Pre-Owned.

In your first post, you never mentioned that you were posting about electronic item(s) that had come in a box, but no longer had one. You only said they had tags. Other item categories allow open box, but not Toys & Hobbies.

New—open box: The item is in excellent, new condition with no functional defects. The item may be missing original packaging and may have been used for testing or demo purposes...

Doesn't that "condition" directly conflict with New in other categories? If the items you are concerned about show no signs of USE, would they qualify as New-open box?

If your electronic items were to be listed in the Cameras and Photo... category would they qualify as New - Open box, in that long list of items under that heading in the link posted above?

If you want to be literal fine, but can you be literal when there are more than one definitions of NEW given by ebay?

[beckamet]

I agree that it is problematic having only 2 choices in this category.    Naturally, if the choice were given, I'd go with "New-open box" for that particular item you mention.   But if there's NO box at all, I would say Used because there's no other option in this category.  I apologize for not mentioning a box in my first question.   I suppose it just depends on how you translate, "open box", but that phrase alone implies there's a box, but if it was once sealed and that's been broken, I would call that, New-open box.   But really eBay's definition contradicts itself, New-open box, etc, may be missing it's original packaging?   Clearly you can't have both an "open box" and missing packaging.   So yes, it does conflict.  You're right that it really is eBay's fault in this category for not giving more options to list the condition of the item.  I've even seen a few listing where the item was described as being restored and/or repaired, etc. and listed as New.  Ugh!  Well, in the end, I will still leans towards an item as being Used, tag or no tag, IF there's no original box.  Thank you so much for your insight. 

[mudshark61369]

@beckamet,

Yeah, it is a tough call to make, though some sellers really get it wrong sometimes. 

Here is another conundrum I run into often, as I sell many old plastic model kits.

Many old kits mostly sold before `63 came in Hard boxes, that were not shrink wrapped and the parts were loose in the box, not in plastic envelopes. The tops and bottoms of the boxes usually only had two thin strips of tape holding them together.  Many of the ones I've picked up over the years had been opened. So I do open them and go through parts lists when available or following the instructions when there isn't one, to check for missing parts, so I can say for sure they are complete.

 Should an open box complete model kit be listed as New or Used?

Just so you know. Shelf wear on those boxes, unless really bad, does not detract from a kit's value since it is so common. 

[foster9]

You can always post a question to the seller.

[untitledrecords]

Let the buyer beware.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

It is not just a problem with toys.

Ebay sellers often use the condition NEW for items which are clearly not new. Ebay rarely pulls a listing before it is sold, and often the only way this misrepresentation is resolved is by the Ebay Money Back Guarantee, and Ebay measurement of Not As Described rates for the seller.

In order to preserve your sanity, and moderate your blood pressure, ignore your competitors offers or it you are trying to validate pricing, expect to lower the stated condition.

There appear to be a lot of Ebay sellers with no experience shopping at a normal retail store for their own needs, and others who are shopping the clearance shelves at retailers for merchandise.

There are many buyers who do not buy items which are new and in production on Ebay because they are aware of the misrepresentation. Ebay's financial results have documented the loss of such sales to venues like Amazon and Walmart, so this should be non-controversial.

[buybuy42]

I sell electric slot cars on eBay and have done so for many years. The hobbyists I sell to appreciate a good and truthful, clear description with plenty of pictures, regardless of the car being 'new' or 'used.' 

I purchase factory sealed 'new' condition cars, I then open the (blister) case/card and place the car in my sealed display case, along with the other 'shelf queens'. That's just my way of doing things here.

Eventually, I will sell these 'new' cars without a case, since they have not been 'used', I list them as 'new, but 'loose' - no longer in factory packaging, They are still 'new' cars but unused, and my description is clear.

Vintage slot cars I sell, though they will be in the original factory box and label, I sell as 'used' because they have obviously been played with over time.

Buyers need and want honesty from a seller. I give this to my buyers and they reward me with their return business. Thanks for reading my manifesto and good luck with your listings and future sales.