Counterfeit LISTINGS

[xbolts]

I JUST BOUGHT TWO Counterfeit STAMPS ON EBAY, AND THEY WERE LISTED AS COUNTERFEIT, AND I WAS HAPPY TO GET THEM.

US Revenue Periodical/Newspaper PR3 & PR4 COUNTERFEIT

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335244890651

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335244831901

DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD BE BANNED ON EBAY?

THEY GO IN MY REFERENCE COLLECTION.

[soh.maryl]

So I guess that neither you nor your seller were aware that eBay forbids the listing of any counterfeits, even if they are openly described as such?  

Not sure what kind of answer you are looking for here.

[4pawsup*]

You need to stop buying these counterfeit stamps. All your doing is supporting an illegal activity selling anything that is counterfeit. Its is a federal crime to purchase distribute counterfeit stamps. Beside it being a violation of ebay rules for selling.

[kensgiftshop]

It would have been better to report them, then buy them.

[billsey]

he seller needed to mark them on the back as counterfeit in order to sell them based on eBay's policies. It doesn't look like they did that, so you would have been better served to have reported them. You also paid a bit too much, IMO for those in that condition, they aren't hard to find in decent condition.

[kensgiftshop]

---

@billsey wrote:

he seller needed to mark them on the back as counterfeit in order to sell them based on eBay's policies. It doesn't look like they did that, so you would have been better served to have reported them. You also paid a bit too much, IMO for those in that condition, they aren't hard to find in decent condition.

---

No, counterfeits can't be sold, no matter how you mark them.

[malolo]

Hi Ken,

I looked at your reecent sales feedback and I didn't see any items from the stamps category. At issue for over 20 years on eBay has been the niggling fact that within the Stamps Category have been "fakes" (modern and old), forgeries (types to fool the post office, and another category to fool collectors), "reproductions" (which can be as simple as scanned images of other stamsp), and now the term "counterfeit" is upon us. 

So you understand the Stamps Category:

1. Forgeries, mostly classical 19th century forgeries, were created then for collectors to fill spaces in their albums of expensive stamps they would never otherwise own. Many of these are collectable!

2. Fakes, most often are real stamps with fake overprints or surcharges added to the real stamp. This is an easy way to make money on eBay. - https://www.rfrajola.com/Hialeah/Hialeah.htm

3. Reproductions, are usually mid-20th century to modern reproductions created in a differentform than the original. Such as engraved stamps being reproduced by offset printing, or a copy machine for the crudest reproductions.

4. Counterfeit, usually created to avoid paying the government money to use the postal system. The PO gets real upset  (used to in the old days) about these. Most recent examples are those coil flag stamp andmini-sheets coming from China and sold online through various retail outlets, including eBay at one point. They are now being offered as stickers!

I cover this in very general terms because one person's fake is another person forgery, or another person facsimile.

Here's a list from Wikpedia of known classic stamp forgers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stamp_forgers

 

[malolo]

Please explain this eBay Category if Fakes and Reproductions are not allowed to be sold?

https://www.ebay.com/b/Fake-Reproduction-Stamps/139792/bn_2309757

[msgtdavid]

Interesting:

I was thinking I was the only collector that still maintained a reference collection.  

Looks like a good examples and useful for references, beside you got a good deal I think!

Perhaps (my thinking only) reference collection is a great tool for learning!

OK, members can now attack me!

[mtgraves7984]

---

@malolo wrote:

Please explain this eBay Category if Fakes and Reproductions are not allowed to be sold?

https://www.ebay.com/b/Fake-Reproduction-Stamps/139792/bn_2309757

---

@malolo 

This is such a good question that it caused me to open my 'vs.' window. Read on... 🤔

As adjectives the difference between 'fake' and 'counterfeit' is that fake is not real, false or fraudulent while counterfeit is false, intended to deceive or carry appearance of being genuine.

[kensgiftshop]

---

@malolo wrote:

Hi Ken,

I looked at your reecent sales feedback and I didn't see any items from the stamps category. At issue for over 20 years on eBay has been the niggling fact that within the Stamps Category have been "fakes" (modern and old), forgeries (types to fool the post office, and another category to fool collectors), "reproductions" (which can be as simple as scanned images of other stamsp), and now the term "counterfeit" is upon us. 

So you understand the Stamps Category:

1. Forgeries, mostly classical 19th century forgeries, were created then for collectors to fill spaces in their albums of expensive stamps they would never otherwise own. Many of these are collectable!

2. Fakes, most often are real stamps with fake overprints or surcharges added to the real stamp. This is an easy way to make money on eBay. - https://www.rfrajola.com/Hialeah/Hialeah.htm

3. Reproductions, are usually mid-20th century to modern reproductions created in a differentform than the original. Such as engraved stamps being reproduced by offset printing, or a copy machine for the crudest reproductions.

4. Counterfeit, usually created to avoid paying the government money to use the postal system. The PO gets real upset  (used to in the old days) about these. Most recent examples are those coil flag stamp andmini-sheets coming from China and sold online through various retail outlets, including eBay at one point. They are now being offered as stickers!

I cover this in very general terms because one person's fake is another person forgery, or another person facsimile.

Here's a list from Wikpedia of known classic stamp forgers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stamp_forgers

 

---

Stamps are no different from any other item, counterfeit is counterfeit and can't be sold.

[xbolts]

MY LINK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpaCefRQUo8

PUT  IN YOUR LINK

[annadryl]

That seller is APS... Don't they have standards as far as destroying or at least marking them as copy or reproduction?

They shouldn't be selling them but I don't think they should be banished on ebay. They didn't try to sell them as legit.

[xbolts]

I AM NOT A MEMBER

AS A BUYER I HAVE NO ETHICS CODE

American Philatelic Society

Code of Ethics

Also available in .pdf format.

Membership in the American Philatelic Society is a privilege extended to those persons and organizations deemed worthy thereof and is not a matter of right. Membership may be maintained unless the Board of Directors determines that the conduct of a member has been such that, in the best interest of the Society, membership should be suspended or terminated.

For guidance of its members, this Code of Ethics has been duly adopted by the Board of Directors and by the authority vested in it by the Constitution and Bylaws of the Society. A breach of ethics by any member reflects, directly or indirectly, upon all other members. Such a breach shall be considered conduct prejudicial to the welfare of the Society and cause for disciplinary action by the Board of Directors.

As a member of the American Philatelic Society

1. I agree to support and be governed by the Constitution and Bylaws of the APS and such amendments, resolutions, and policies as may be established.
2. I agree to abide by all federal, state, and local laws relating to philatelic matters.
3. I agree to conduct myself so as to bring no reproach or discredit to the APS, or to impair the prestige of membership therein, or to philately.
4. I agree neither to buy nor sell philatelic items of which the ownership is questionable, and to report promptly to the proper law enforcement agencies information on suspected stolen material.
5. I agree to correct promptly any error I may make in any transaction.
6. I agree to assist in the prosecution of violations, of which I have knowledge, of laws pertaining to philatelic matters, and to report promptly to the proper law enforcement agencies any such violations.
7. I agree not knowingly to sell, trade, produce, or advertise repaired, altered, or otherwise modified philatelic items unless that condition is clearly stated. I further agree not to sell, produce, or advertise counterfeit material in any form, in violation of any law.
8. I agree to fulfill all contracts made by me, either orally or written, to make prompt payments upon delivery, and to return promptly any item that is not satisfactory.
9. When exhibiting, I agree to display only material from my own collection or else to state clearly the contrary intent.
10. I agree that substitution of stamps or covers, in circuits, approval selections, auction lots, etc. is dishonest and is cause for expulsion.
11. I agree to bring known examples of irresponsible or unethical tactics to the attention of the societies in which I hold membership and which embrace this code.
12. I agree to conduct myself in accordance with accepted standards of morality and courtesy in philatelic activities not specifically cited in the code.
13. Requests for extension of time to return purchased material while awaiting expert opinion is not an acceptable reason to hold up payment for same. Prompt refund shall be from the seller should the material submitted for opinion be deemed other than as offered or described by the seller. Unless otherwise previously agreed, the seller shall also bear reasonable costs for obtaining the opinion if material is other than as offered or described. The buyer shall inform the seller immediately after receipt of any expert opinion. Requests for extension of time must be in writing.
14. I agree to read, understand, and be bound by the "terms of sale" conditions before submitting an auction bid or placing a philatelic order.
15. If I should be found guilty of unethical or unlawful conduct, the record thereof may be disclosed to other philatelic societies of which I am a member.
16. I agree that any dispute concerning philatelic transactions in which I am involved may be settled by arbitration mutually agreed upon by the parties involved.
17. I agree not to knowingly participate in any way in the advertisement, sale or trade of any philatelic material using any deceptive practices including, but not limited to, false or misleading claims of sales scarcity, value, condition or investment potential.
18. I agree that no dealer or auctioneer knowingly shall represent in any way, including, but not limited to, a prices realized report that a bona fide sale of a philatelic item at a given price has occurred when, in fact, no change of ownership did occur.

Every member is bound to adhere to the Code of Ethics. The Code is recognized and highly respected in the organized philatelic community.

The three-member Board of Vice Presidents, which serves as the judicial body of the Society, investigates alleged breaches of the Code of Ethics. The Board assures a fair hearing is accorded to the parties involved and its rulings are binding upon members.

[malolo]

Hi - and the wonderful point about this Code of Ethics is that circa 2003-2005 APS and eBay joined in an effort to stop fakes and forgeries that were being offered on eBay without describing them as such. APS provided an expert committee where buyers could report suspect offerings on eBay and have them reviewed by this committee. After a couple of years eBay ended the affiliation with APS since they thought they could handle the problem. Now 20 years later it proves eBay can't because pointing out fakes and counterfeits on eBay hurts reputation and sales on the site. Heck, the eBay Stamp Chat Board which had been in operation for more than 6 years was ended by Moderators at that time which ended collectors from reporting among themselves fakes and fraudulent items being offered on eBay. 

Sure glad Delcampe came into being!