eBay

4money2012 · ‎05-23-2022

a package got left in the rain by postman who is responsible?

blingfling123 · ‎05-26-2022

When is a Seller protected after a package has been delivered but before the buyer finds it/realizes it has been delivered/gets home from work? I am now guessing never.

I am going to ignore the weather for a moment (even though no carrier will pay out based on it) and focus on some other scenarios.

The Neighbour's dog chews up the package and leaves it in pieces on the front lawn.

A carrier leaves the box by the garage door, and it gets run over by the buyer because they do not know it is there.

None of the carriers will pay out an insurance claim on any of the above, including weather related.

The seller did their part, the carrier did theirs.

"With this it would also depend on how and if the buyer opens a case but hopefully the item was packaged safely so there isn't any damage. "

"It would be handled like any other Not As Described case, so whatever reason they chose we'll action based on that (if we're asked to step in)."

eBay's stance is a seller is responsible for ANY and ALL damage on a package regardless of if that damage occurred after delivery, even if the buyer admits how it happened.

Who knew that the "dog ate my homework" would ever work.

Cue all the porch pirate INRs now turning into "ZOMG I found it BUT....." INADs accompanied by pictures of torn up or soggy boxes.

Yeah, I know I am barking at the wind, or in this case, the rain.

monster-deals · ‎05-26-2022

@mam98031 wrote:
@monster-deals wrote:
Buyer.

The buyer is supposed to have a safe place for package delivery.
@monster-deals
Who has said they didn't?

I did, you quoted me. Lots of others said it as well.

mam98031 · ‎05-26-2022

@monster-deals wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@monster-deals wrote:
Buyer.

The buyer is supposed to have a safe place for package delivery.
@monster-deals
Who has said they didn't?
I did, you quoted me. Lots of others said it as well.

That is simply a guess. None of us knows if that is true or not and the OP isn't participating in the thread, so it is unlikely we will ever know.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

couldabeenworse · ‎05-26-2022

@mam98031 wrote:
@couldabeenworse wrote:
"It's the buyer's responsibility to provide a safe place for delivery of a package. "

I've been asking for about 20 years now for anyone to show any official source for that statement, and to define just how "safe" it would need to be.

Regardless, if the parcel simply getting wet damages the goods, the packaging was insufficient. If the seller chooses to gamble on inadequate packing, he should expect an occasional loss.
@couldabeenworse

It is a statement made over the years mostly to describe that sellers are NOT responsible for porch pirates. If tracking shows it was delivered and yet the package is missing, most times the seller protection will hold up for the seller.

Yeah, that's a different argument for a different time. 😁 Nice to see you again...

monster-deals · ‎05-27-2022

@mam98031 wrote:
@monster-deals wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@monster-deals wrote:
Buyer.

The buyer is supposed to have a safe place for package delivery.
@monster-deals
Who has said they didn't?
I did, you quoted me. Lots of others said it as well.
That is simply a guess. None of us knows if that is true or not and the OP isn't participating in the thread, so it is unlikely we will ever know.

The only other explanation is it got wet before it was delivered.

Possible but not probable.

We do know that rain does not spontaneously generate inside of things so that narrows things down considerably.

the_fancy_fox · ‎05-27-2022

A carrier leaves the box by the garage door, and it gets run over by the buyer because they do not know it is there.

i had one of these. The carrier delivered it smashed with tire tracks over the top of it. And….. I lost the claim. Wasn’t packed well enough. Yeah well duh. Not sure anything can stand getting run over.

ebay will side with the buyer on everything except claims of not delivered where tracking shows it was.

if you think about it, that’s the only way it can be. They are not there, it’s a he said she said situation. Not delivered where tracking shows it is? Third party proof.

The Race is over
The Rats won.

stephenmorgan · ‎05-27-2022

@the_fancy_fox wrote:
A carrier leaves the box by the garage door, and it gets run over by the buyer because they do not know it is there.

Same happened to me. I accepted it was my fault and never thought about a claim.

Funny because next to garage is a patio with a 4 foot wall and 4 foot of roof that would have protected package from the elements and been more secured.

mam98031 · ‎05-27-2022

@monster-deals wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@monster-deals wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@monster-deals wrote:
Buyer.

The buyer is supposed to have a safe place for package delivery.
@monster-deals
Who has said they didn't?
I did, you quoted me. Lots of others said it as well.
That is simply a guess. None of us knows if that is true or not and the OP isn't participating in the thread, so it is unlikely we will ever know.
The only other explanation is it got wet before it was delivered.

Possible but not probable.

We do know that rain does not spontaneously generate inside of things so that narrows things down considerably.

Maybe but not the only reason. There have been a few stories shared on this thread, including a couple from me that could be a viable reason this happened. For some it was they had a cover area for deliveries but for some reason the carrier was allergic to steps and instead of leaving the package under the covered area they left it on the edge of the porch that they could reach without having to use the step or steps.

I've personally had a few different situations with carriers, the more common one is to leave the package at the man door on my garage because that is so close when they get out of their vehicle with the package. They ignore the note on the door to leave all packages on the Front Porch with a big red arrow pointing to the front porch. So I do have a designated safe area for my deliveries. But sometimes that is completely ignored by a carrier, especially if there is a substitute delivery person.

None of this is known about the buyer of this story that the thread is based on. Some make assumptions, but that doesn't make it then a fact. We simply just do not know and likely won't because the OP is not participating in their thread.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

mr_lincoln · ‎05-27-2022

@monster-deals wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@monster-deals wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@monster-deals wrote:
Buyer.

The buyer is supposed to have a safe place for package delivery.
@monster-deals
Who has said they didn't?
I did, you quoted me. Lots of others said it as well.
That is simply a guess. None of us knows if that is true or not and the OP isn't participating in the thread, so it is unlikely we will ever know.
The only other explanation is it got wet before it was delivered.

Possible but not probable.

We do know that rain does not spontaneously generate inside of things so that narrows things down considerably.

@monster-deals It is also possible it was delivered when it was not raining and then rained before the Buyer took it inside ... if it was a really windy rainy day and was placed on a dry porch the rain could have blown in on the package ... like the rain blew in our bathroom window last week and soaked our toilet paper and bathroom floor ... one of those pop up thunderstorms ... nasty critters for use.

This may also be one of those Buyers or Sellers looking for an OUT with regard to responsibility ... and they are just reading replies ...

Here's another angle ... HOW does the OP know the postman did it? Were they there when the package was delivered? Is so why not just take it inside right away ... if not then HOW do they really know the postman did it if they were not there to see it? Sure, most likely it was the postman but in a court of law there would be no proof if it was not observed, it's just speculation ...

I think we've all been had on this one that's for sure LOL!

Mr. L

Regards,
Mr. Lincoln - Community Mentor

zamo-zuan · ‎05-27-2022

@mam98031 wrote:

If you are expecting any policy to state how ever single situation should be handled, you will forever be disappointed as they simply can't do that.

I don't expect it to be all inclusive, lol. In my opinion, it's a reasonable request for it to be clear enough that eBay staff could interpret it. As it is right now, eBay staff doesn't even know how to interpret it.

@mam98031 wrote:

But the guidelines for when a seller can discount a refund if they are TRS is very specific. And yes it doesn't cover every single situation that could possibly come up, but then it likely wasn't intended to do that. As a perk of TRS we were give SOME situation where Ebay will allow us to reduce a buyer's refund. If not stated in the guidelines, it isn't covered. You are trying to make it more complicated than it is.

...

It ONLY covers what is stated. If it isn't covered in the published guidelines then it isn't something you are not suppose to be reducing the buyer's refund for.

I'm not sure where I'm "making it more complicated". The guidelines specifically state "if it is returned in a different condition", so as mentioned, that could be (and was) interpreted as applying here. That actually is stated as a situation that is covered with no clauses indicating it only applies in a certain situation.

If the only qualification - or guideline - for being covered is it being returned in a different condition than how it was shipped, it's meeting the guideline as written. If there's exclusions to this, that should be included in the policy.

BTW, that's not due to me 'making it more complicated' or any fault or responsibility of 'mine', that's due to eBay's own staff and their interpretation. I'm not to blame for their stance.

Actually what I'm discussing is the opposite of it being more complicated - it's less complicated if we go with what's written. There's nothing to specifically include nor exclude any rules because of the return reason chosen. No conditions mentioned that the return guidelines only applies to specific return types.

Hence so much confusion in how to interpret it (on eBay's side as well as this thread)

mam98031 · ‎05-27-2022

@zamo-zuan

Simply another thing we don't agree on. I find the guidelines for discounting a buyer's refund for TRS to be clear and easy to follow. You are right it did not cover what you discounted a buyer's refund for, but then I don't think it intended to in the first place. But again, just my observation, nothing more.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

pickermall · ‎05-28-2022

Did the OP ever reply to this thread as to whether they are seller, buyer or if this was just debate bait?

pburn · ‎05-28-2022

@postcardcountry wrote:

Did I know it was coming....nope, never got a tracking number from the seller

USPS, UPS and FedEx all have delivery alert features available that will let you know when a package is on its way to you. Very handy for anticipating package delivery. You don't even need to know the tracking number.

mam98031 · ‎05-28-2022

@pickermall wrote:
Did the OP ever reply to this thread as to whether they are seller, buyer or if this was just debate bait?

@pickermall

The OP hasn't participated at all.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

retronerdz · ‎06-13-2022

It may be the buyer's responsibility to provide a safe place for packages to be left.

It might be the carrier's responsibility to place it out of the rain if an easily accessible place is available. (Good luck with that claim)

But in the end, I always think it's my responsibility as the seller to protect the item from the very real possibility of water damage if left in the rain. That's why I use poly mailers.