Regards,
mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
@d-k_treasures wrote:
@zamo-zuan wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
"I'd never seen or heard anywhere else that "arrived damaged" returns are to be handled differently from any other NAD return case. So in the end, responsibility might just be luck of the draw depending which rep gets assigned to your case."
Actually this is the same situation many sellers find themselves in all the time. The first CSR you spoke to was wrong. What they told you to do is against the publish policy on the subject. The second CSR was more in line with what the policy says for when and why we can reduce a buyer's refund if you are a TRS.
So likely if your buyer appealed your first case, Ebay would have refunded the difference to them.
Is there anything in the published policy regarding this? When I had checked, the only thing I found in written policy was for acceptance, and not really for how to handle upon return.
Looking now, I could only find that arrived damaged means they will be able to open a return even if no returns accepted. And that they are eligible for MBG, but MBG page mentioned nothing for arrived damaged. The refund deduction guidelines seem to be most dependent on if it was damaged based on the condition sent to buyer, in the section titled "If the item is returned used or damaged", not really indicating where the damage was received.
Is there anything else in the written policy regarding this?
Except that it didn't arrive damaged. It was delivered, then damaged by rain. It's on the buyer or parcel service. And there is no reason why a buyer should not be required to keep the packaging and item for inspection if they file a SNAD for a damage reason. This "I threw it out and the garbage man just picked it up 5 minutes ago" needs to stop.
Even though I can count the problems I've had on a couple fingers, this is one reason why I don't sell here anymore. I also see so many repop "antique" toys and banks sold that I'd be afraid to send a real one to some people anymore for fear of them saying it's not correct because they have no clue.
@d-k_treasures What's interesting is that the OP has never come back to advise if any damage occurred from the package being left in the rain ... I re-read the OP and decided it may be a trick question ... sort of like, "What is Dudley Do Right's horse's name?" The answer is in the question, its name was "Horse" ...
likewise for the OP ... the package was left in the rain by the postman, therefore, the postman is responsible for leaving it in the rain ... pretty simple. Beyond that its a lot of speculation ...
@mam98031 wrote:
The guidelines for what you can withhold funds from the buyer for does not cover anything to do with the buyer receiving the item damaged.
...
There is nothing in the deduction guidelines that allows for any deduction from the buyer for a situation where the buyer receives the item damaged.
That's the source of confusion in the written policy. At the link provided, there's no guidelines for what to do in a 'buyer receives item damaged' situation. It only states 'if it's returned used or damaged', which leaves things open for interpretation. (Not just for sellers, but CS apparently interprets it differently as well).
Going by what's written alone, it could be (and in our case, it was by the rep) interpreted that this section applies:
It also leaves it open to interpretation as to how "arrived" is defined as this user has mentioned:
@d-k_treasures wrote:Except that it didn't arrive damaged. It was delivered, then damaged by rain.
Anyway, we're not encountering one of these issues now (hopefully won't any time soon) and we followed eBay's instruction at the time we did.
Just looking in to it now, it seems that without clarifying the written policy a bit, it leaves too much to interpretation for eBay reps to consistently know how to enforce the policy, and leaves room for sellers to argue their own interpretation (as shown by the confusion in this thread).
If you are expecting any policy to state how ever single situation should be handled, you will forever be disappointed as they simply can't do that. But the guidelines for when a seller can discount a refund if they are TRS is very specific. And yes it doesn't cover every single situation that could possibly come up, but then it likely wasn't intended to do that. As a perk of TRS we were give SOME situation where Ebay will allow us to reduce a buyer's refund. If not stated in the guidelines, it isn't covered. You are trying to make it more complicated than it is.
Yes, many sellers follow the advice they get from an Ebay CSR and it isn't correct advice. You know this as you have plenty of experience to know this is true. And if Ebay wanted to, they could have forced you to refund the balance of the money since you did not follow the published guidelines no matter if 10+ CSRs had advised you differently.
I think you want the guidelines to be all inclusive, which simply isn't going to happen. It ONLY covers what is stated. If it isn't covered in the published guidelines then it isn't something you are not suppose to be reducing the buyer's refund for. I get it, you want it all inclusive, but IMHO it was never intended to be that, it was something that in specific situations we could reduce a buyer's refund.
@monster-deals wrote:Buyer.
The buyer is supposed to have a safe place for package delivery.
Who has said they didn't? The ONLY think we know is that the carrier left the package where it could get wet, NOT that the buyer didn't have a safe place for packages to be delivered.
When we first moved into this house some 14 years ago we had a USPS carrier that really needed to retire as she was so hard to deal with. And she hated my driveway for some reason. It is all concrete and has a pad on it that is big enough to easily turn a SUV around in. It is quite generous. But her and her compact station wagon just didn't like it at all.
So one day it was raining out and my husband notices we had a couple of Priority Mail boxes sitting on the ground in the dirt below our mail box. So instead of driving up my driveway and leaving them on my porch she sat them in the rain on the ground. That particular shipment was for inventory I sold at the time and had a retail value of well over $500 per box.
We were able to recover them before I lost the inventory as the rain would have destroyed it. I called our local PO and talked to the boss and she never did that again. I'm confident many of us have horror stories we could share about carriers.
@couldabeenworse wrote:"It's the buyer's responsibility to provide a safe place for delivery of a package. "
I've been asking for about 20 years now for anyone to show any official source for that statement, and to define just how "safe" it would need to be.
Regardless, if the parcel simply getting wet damages the goods, the packaging was insufficient. If the seller chooses to gamble on inadequate packing, he should expect an occasional loss.
It is a statement made over the years mostly to describe that sellers are NOT responsible for porch pirates. If tracking shows it was delivered and yet the package is missing, most times the seller protection will hold up for the seller.
