return item for refund saying it was not as described or pictured when it was in fact both desdribed

[rhyder4195]

I sold a welder to a buyer. The listing was very detailed and had eleven good photos. The buyer for some reason chose to return for a refund and under Ebay's guarantee they immediately accepted the return. I have tried to show ebay that the item was exactly as described and pictured. Also, when the buyer received the item he claims the handle was broken. I assume it probably was broken in shipping, but now I know there is no way to prove it since he has since shipped it back to me. Every claim he made can be refuted with evidence, but it seems there is no way for me to dispute, and so the only relevant fact is his word

[orangehound]

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@rhyder4195 wrote:

 but it seems there is no way for me to dispute, and so the only relevant fact is his word

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That is correct.  That is the reality with a Money Back Guarantee claim.

If you receive the item back, and you discover that the buyer simply claimed it was broken when it was not, then they were abusing the Money Back Guarantee in order to get free return shipping ... it happens.

What can you do?

1. You can call eBay and see if they will give you a courtesy refund of the return shipping ... sometimes it happens, and sometimes it doesn't.
2. You can report the buyer as dishonestly returning the item, and making a false Money Back Guarantee claim ... perhaps, some day, if the buyer continues this behavior with other sellers, then they could lose their return privileges.

[charity_scents]

Ebay immediately accepted the return? Do you have automated returns turned on?

Did the buyer contact you immediately about the damage during shipment? If so you should have dealt with that issue before buyer filed SNAD.
Did your insure the shipment? If so file a claim if it's not too late.

When you receive it back, video opening the package. 
Check to make sure the serial number is the same as the one you sent buyer. 
If not call CS and send photographic proof. 
Tell buyer you are going to file a case for mail fraud, etc. 

If it's the same one you can try appealing. Maybe someone else will have better ideas on how to handle. 

[rhyder4195]

No I do not have automated returns turned on.  Ebay says they automatically accepted the return because of Ebay's Money Back Guarantee.  Apparently all the buyer has to do is claim that the item is not as described or pictured.  It appears no one actually takes an interest in seeing if it is true or not.  That is the crux of my problem -- getting someone to actually look at this.  I reported the buyer, but that was many days ago, and it does not appear that I get any resolution from that report.  What I want to do is appeal this decision but so far I don't see a way for me to do that.  And, I did not know about the broken handle until the buyer started a return; not sure if I had insurance on it, but even if I did, it seems kinda late now that it has already been shipped back to me.  Got it this afternoon.  Took pictures, and yest it's the same machine I sent him and all the parts of the broken handle are there, but the handle is a minor issue in my mind.  What I want is this to be judged fairly and for it to be seen for what it is -- false statements to return an item for whatever the real reasons were.

[rhyder4195]

Sorry, I did not know what a quick reply was.  This reply was intended for you.  --No I do not have automated returns turned on. Ebay says they automatically accepted the return because of Ebay's Money Back Guarantee. Apparently all the buyer has to do is claim that the item is not as described or pictured. It appears no one actually takes an interest in seeing if it is true or not. That is the crux of my problem -- getting someone to actually look at this. I reported the buyer, but that was many days ago, and it does not appear that I get any resolution from that report. What I want to do is appeal this decision but so far I don't see a way for me to do that. And, I did not know about the broken handle until the buyer started a return; not sure if I had insurance on it, but even if I did, it seems kinda late now that it has already been shipped back to me. Got it this afternoon. Took pictures, and yest it's the same machine I sent him and all the parts of the broken handle are there, but the handle is a minor issue in my mind. What I want is this to be judged fairly and for it to be seen for what it is -- false statements to return an item for whatever the real reasons were.

[bonjourami]

A waste of time videotaping or taking pictures of the item..those can be doctored. I dont understand why you are fighting this refund when the item has a broken handle. Sorry, but you wont win this one.

[bonjourami]

Do you think that you, as the seller who packed this item, are not responsible for the handle, probably broken in shipping?

[rhyder4195]

My only plan now is to wait for Ebay to do whatever they do when you do not voluntarily issue a refund.  Then I will have the option to appeal their decision.  If they just ignore the facts then so be it; I could give a you know what about my 'seller score' or whatever else they try to use to make me look bad -- I know that everything I sell is listed honestly and up front.  You know what I'm talking about the kind of lister who would rather mention a slight flaw or possible problem, rather than to have a upset buyer or later problems.  Well, that's the kind of guy I am, and I'm getting tired of doing my best and this site seems completely automated , and not automated in exactly what I would call favorable conditions to facilitate honest buyer seller listing, but automated to maximize fees.

Sorry almost went into a little rant there, but that's another story.

[bonjourami]

Ebay will force the refund and you will get a major defect for no seller resolution. Why are you refusing to refund when the welder arrived with a broken handle? No buyer should be out their money for a broken item.

[rhyder4195]

Oh I have no doubt I won't win this one.  But maybe I didn't explain the situation, and if I did then the broken handle is the most minor part of the problem.  And, I have no doubt it was broken in shipping, and if the buyer had simply stated that he wanted to return the item because the handle was broken I would have quietly accepted that, but then too I would have had a claim with UPS, again it would have been minor for a plastic handle.  But this man vociferously stated that it wasn't the item pictured and that I hadn't described it.  Bold faced lies, and as a mater of fact he is calling me a liar.  That is my problem; not accepting the return, or refunding the money (I'm sure I will have no problem selling it for the exact same price or even a little more if I so choose), but the lies.  Plus, he wasted my time for no good reason as everything was there in front of him while looking at the listing, just exactly as it was when he opened the box.

[orangehound]

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@rhyder4195 wrote:

My only plan now is to wait for Ebay to do whatever they do when you do not voluntarily issue a refund.  Then I will have the option to appeal their decision.  If they just ignore the facts then so be it; I could give a you know what about my 'seller score' or whatever else they try to use to make me look bad

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If the case is escalated and you lose, you will also not get refunded your PayPal and eBay final value fees .... on that welder, that is an additional $30-35 loss for you.

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I know that everything I sell is listed honestly and up front.

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I get that you are honest, but if an item is broken in shipping then that is not an attack on your honestly.

[rhyder4195]

Oh no, I very well maybe responsible for the handle.  Again, if that were the only issue I wouldn't be here.

[bonjourami]

so you are basically fighting this because of the buyers bad attitude.Sorry but its you who will pay the price for this, not the buyer. I would say pick your battles..but thats up to you of course..

[orangehound]

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@rhyder4195 wrote:

No I do not have automated returns turned on. Ebay says they automatically accepted the return because of Ebay's Money Back Guarantee. Apparently all the buyer has to do is claim that the item is not as described or pictured.

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No.  eBay automatically accepts a return if you have a 30- or 60-day return policy AND you are not configured for RMAs or replacements, etc.  On this welder, it looks like you have a 60-day return policy, so any return request will be automatically accepted.

The "automated returns turned on" is old news ... eBay changed the policy about a year ago.

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Got it this afternoon. Took pictures, and yest it's the same machine I sent him and all the parts of the broken handle are there, but the handle is a minor issue in my mind. What I want is this to be judged fairly and for it to be seen for what it is -- false statements to return an item for whatever the real reasons were.

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Since the handle is broken, the buyer did not make a false statement, and this is a legitimate Money Back Guarantee return.   It doesn't matter whether or not you consider it a minor issue ... the item arrived at the buyer's home in a condition that is "broken".

I see nothing improper with the buyer's behavior or actions.

[rhyder4195]

OK, here's exactly a copy of the return reason:

Reason

Doesn't match description or photos

Details

you said it was slightly used and it's not true. the handle on top of the welder is broken and the wiring is been repaired with electrical tape in many different spots and i just check the price and your price is for brand new items. I want a refund.

And, as I stated in another reply I would have quietly accepted if it was just that the handle was broken. 

And, if costs me those fees, so be it.  I'll just be one step closer to the day when I (and all of us here) end up owing money after selling something.

I may not be explaining this with as much detail as I could, but (and this was even a little bit much for me) I had eleven (11) good quality pictures with this listing, and I detailed every deficit in detail.  Again I could not have foreseen the broken handle though.  And, at some point in my as it now appears futile attempt to get Ebay to look at this I also mentioned that my feedback rating is 191, where as the buyer's is 0, and his account was created on the day of the sale.  There may also be a language obstacle, butt I am unsure of that because although I have messaged the buyer at least three times, he has never responded.