eBay

replacementradios · ‎01-09-2023

We have orders from the weekend for which the amount the customer paid for UPS shipping appears to be incorrect (low).

For example, one item (272474256433) shows UPS Ground rates of $13-$100+. (When I edit the item to see how shipping is set up.) There was also a $2 handling fee set up at the time AND the customer purchased quantity two, not one... But he only paid $10.17 for UPS Ground.

How can this be? They buy more items, but pay less than the 'minimum' for shipping (for quantity one even)? We can't even ship the package for that. If eBay had used the minimum stated in the shipping section of the ad setup ($13), it would have been fine. Margins are razor thin as it is. The last thing we need is to be losing money on shipping...

FYI - The item is set up with a weight of 2 lbs for quantity one. And a box size of 12"x12"x8". There is no 'Calculated shipping rule' applied. Am I missing something?

lesegouts · ‎01-10-2023

Dimensional weight is 7-9 pounds, depending on which divisor is applied. Could this be part of the issue?

stainlessenginecovers · ‎01-10-2023

You need calculated shipping to be applied. Look at your 'shipping preferences' in your 'preferences.

replacementradios · ‎01-10-2023

eBay charged them less than the minimum estimated amount for a purchase of quantity one. That's not right. They bought two... Just because we don't have calculated shipping applied, that shouldn't result in a cheaper shipping rate for a greater quantity. That defies logic. It never costs less to send more weight in (possibly) a bigger box... eBay should at least calculate the minimum for quantity one, using the weight and dimensions entered...

replacementradios · ‎01-10-2023

The item weight in the ad is set to 2 lbs for quantity one. And box size is entered as 12x12x8. So they have the weight and dimensions for their estimates.

When I edit the ad to see the shipping setup, it says UPS Ground shipping will be $13-$100+. (I assume they are quoting best case and worst case, for all states we ship to.) If there is a dimensional component that eBay is not considering when they give those estimates, that would seem to be a coding problem. If they can take it into account when they actually charge for shipping, they should be taking it into account when they give those estimates too...

stainlessenginecovers · ‎01-10-2023

Where are you getting that $13 to $100 from? You are in the middle of the country so nothing should cost $100. If you don't have calculated shipping (eBay calculates it) then you have FLAT Rate, which is a price set up by you. When setting up a listing with more than 1 available, there is a box for 1 and then for 'each additional'. YOU then input that figure.

You have UPS Ground as 'standard' and USPS Priority as 'Expedited'. You should just have 1 type (1 company).

For shipping from you to Nevada 89029, they ship to me as follows
1 Standard UPS Ground $13.77

2 Standard UPS Ground $16.34 (so less than $3 more)- if you are using 'flat rate' and not calculated, you need to fix that if you need more for 2

1 Expedited (usps priority) $18.75

2 Expedited (usps priority) $25.60 (so, $7 more).

Are you using Shipping Preferences in your Preferences (I NEVER do as it 'blankets' all items; I use 'Flat Rate on each listing and never ever inputted anything in the 'shipping preferences).

1 of my items ship for $11.95- and each additional also ships for ANOTHER $11.95 (mostly because nobody would ever buy more than 1 of any particular item I sell, but if they did- that's the price- unless they ask me for a 'bulk' purchase)

buyselljack2016 · ‎01-10-2023

For me it displays UPS shipping for (1) as $14.21 , for (2) $15.93, for (3) $18.59

From you to Chicago: (1) for, $10.79 (2) for $11.17 (3) for $11.75

wastingtime101 · ‎01-10-2023

@replacementradios wrote:
The item is set up with a weight of 2 lbs for quantity one. And a box size of 12"x12"x8".

The first problem is you're offering both USPS and UPS on the same listing with a package that will incur dimensional weight charges through UPS. 12x12x8 / 166 = 7 lb billing weight.

To properly account for UPS dimensional weight you need to enter a 7 lb wt on the listing form, but that would skew the USPS Priority numbers.

For packages that will incur dimensional weight charges, it's usually better to either offer one carrier, or set up rate tables so you can offer multiple carriers with more accurate rates.

@replacementradios wrote:
There was also a $2 handling fee set up at the time AND the customer purchased quantity two, not one... But he only paid $10.17 for UPS Ground.

The second problem is that you are offering buyers the UPS discounted (online) rates instead of the retail rates, so the amount charged has no cushion to cover eBay fees or UPS surcharges for fuel, residential delivery, etc.

GLORIOUS!

glgenterprise · ‎01-10-2023

@wastingtime101 wrote:
@replacementradios wrote:
The item is set up with a weight of 2 lbs for quantity one. And a box size of 12"x12"x8".
The first problem is you're offering both USPS and UPS on the same listing with a package that will incur dimensional weight charges through UPS. 12x12x8 / 166 = 7 lb billing weight.

To properly account for UPS dimensional weight you need to enter a 7 lb wt on the listing form, but that would skew the USPS Priority numbers.

For packages that will incur dimensional weight charges, it's usually better to either offer one carrier, or set up rate tables so you can offer multiple carriers with more accurate rates.

@replacementradios wrote:
There was also a $2 handling fee set up at the time AND the customer purchased quantity two, not one... But he only paid $10.17 for UPS Ground.
The second problem is that you are offering buyers the UPS discounted (online) rates instead of the retail rates, so the amount charged has no cushion to cover eBay fees or UPS surcharges for fuel, residential delivery, etc.

Wait, what?

I offer Fedex/UPS/USPS all the time in the same listing with the actual dimensions of the shipping box and the actual, not dimensional, weight of the package. Often with the dimensional weight exceeding the actual weight. I have never had an issue needing to enter dimensional weight in the eBay listing form to get the correct shipping payment from a buyer.

I do agree that OP's rates look like they are passing on their seller shipping discounts to the buyer, so they should check their settings. I got a 10.79 rate for one and a 11.17 rate for two.

One thing to bear in, OP, when you are shipping items like this - eBay's shipping calculator will account for the weight differential when a buyer orders more than one item in a listing, but the calculator will not double the box size. So when you go to package a purchase of multiple items, you can lose out if you need a bigger box that kicks you into a dimensional weight that is more than your stated weight on a listing.

For example - If you need a 12x12x8 box for one speaker, you likely would need a deeper box for 2 speakers, or one speaker needs a ton of padding to not get destroyed in a way too big box. eBay's calculator will not account for that, so you can lose some money in that scenario. I've had that happen sometimes, particularly with speakers like you are selling.

replacementradios · ‎01-11-2023

@stainlessenginecovers

"Where are you getting that $13 to $100 from? You are in the middle of the country so nothing should cost $100." -- When you edit an item, under the Domestic Shipping section of the edit listing form, it shows you the range of possible shipping costs. I just double-checked for this listing and it says "Buyer pays $13.24 - $128.81" for the UPS Ground entry. I was assuming eBay used our ad settings (location, weight and box size) and the same method for calculating shipping as they do at the time of purchase, when they know they buyer's actual Zip. Otherwise, if it is not accurate, why present it to the seller during the edit process? (That is a question for eBay, and seems to be a valid one, given people are paying less than $13 AND at least one other person here indicates the rates they were quoted, which was also less than $13, AND it shows as shipping to my home address for $10.52...) This is with a handling charge that is now set at $3... As for the $100+ ($128.81, technically), I am assuming it comes from Hawaii or Alaska. UPS Ground does deliver there but, at least in the case of HI, there is a required air component and the 'Ground' rate goes through the roof, as a result...

We do not use Flat Rate shipping. We want shipping to be calculated. There's too much variance from the lowest cost Zip to the highest for us to be comfortable with Flat Rate. (And most of our items do not fit in actual USPS Flat Rate boxes, so that rules out that answer.) The "each additional" selection you reference in another paragraph only seems to apply if you use flat rate. We do not see that for calculated shipping.

"You have UPS Ground as 'standard' and USPS Priority as 'Expedited'. You should just have 1 type (1 company)." -- I disagree, for a couple reasons. One: I feel some buyers might want a choice. Maybe they have bad experiences at their address with USPS, for instance. Two: UPS does not deliver to PO Boxes. So we have to offer USPS. But UPS is cheaper for a lot of our items. Plus we have found UPS to be more reliable and easier to file a claim with (which happens very rarely), so it makes sense to offer UPS too. The majority of buyers can take advantage of UPS savings. (Everyone but PO Box people and maybe west coast, AK, and HI customers...) Either way, eBay should be able to accurately calculate for any number of options at the same time. Even if the variables are different from carrier to carrier. (If each has a different dimension or weight cut-off variable, for instance.) It's 2023...

"Are you using Shipping Preferences in your Preferences" -- No, we are not... We are, however, set up to use the eBay discounted quotes for UPS shipping. It then adds any Handling Charge, if applicable. We're using the eBay discounted UPS quotes because we get a volume discount on our UPS account and we felt the eBay discounted rates were closer to what we pay than UPS published rates. (We do not attempt to profit on shipping, so we want to give the customer a rate as close to our actual rate as possible.)

When I first submitted this 'issue', I was assuming eBay was under-charging for shipping, but it appears what is actually happening is eBay is presenting a range of shipping charges to the seller during ad set-up that are inaccurate. (And I just happened to be seeing several listings that it was biting us on.) When I list or edit and item, I see the cost range eBay shows, look at the minimum and say "Yeah, $13 will cover shipment for the best-case (close) locations." But when the customer actually gets charged $10, that is a different story. So I say: eBay, if you can calculate the $10 for the customer at the time of the sale, based on my ad info and their zip, why can't you calculate an accurate range of possible charges during ad set-up? That min-max feature is going through a calculation process because, if I change shipping variables, those ranges change... If your range had said $10-$100, I would know I'd have to adjust the handling charge. I am basing cost decisions on what you're showing me eBay, and what you're showing me is not accurate...

Perhaps we will have to stop using the eBay discounted quotes. Maybe that is the answer. (That and setting up combined shipping rules for listings where we might sell more than one at a time, as was also suggested by someone.)

replacementradios · ‎01-11-2023

@wastingtime101

I'm with @glgenterprise here. I won't believe eBay isn't smart enough to calculate the rates differently for two different carriers in the same listing. They know the calculation rules for each one and they know all the relevant variables (we've entered in the ad.) If we had an incorrect box size entered and corrected it at the time of shipment, I agree there would be the possibility of mis-calculation due to something we did. But the idea we'd somehow confuse them by offering two different services in the same ad seems hard to believe in this day and age...

Also, you say "The second problem is that you are offering buyers the UPS discounted (online) rates instead of the retail rates, so the amount charged has no cushion to cover eBay fees or UPS surcharges for fuel, residential delivery, etc." --- We're using the eBay discounted UPS quotes because we get a volume discount on our UPS account and we felt the eBay discounted rates were closer to what we pay than UPS published rates. (We do not attempt to profit on shipping, so we want to give the customer a rate as close to our actual rate as possible.) As indicated, we do input a handling fee. (To cover costs like packaging and/or adjust the shipping amount up if it is calculating too low for a given item.) It was $2 on the item in question at the time of my first post. It has since been upped to $3.

*** When I first submitted this 'issue', I was assuming eBay was under-charging for shipping, but it appears what is actually happening is eBay is presenting a range of shipping charges to the seller during ad set-up/edit that are inaccurate. (And I just happened to be seeing several listings that it was biting us on.) When I list or edit an item, I see the cost range eBay shows, look at the minimum and say "Yeah, $13 will cover shipment for the best-case (close) locations." But when the customer actually gets charged $10, that is a different story. So I say: eBay, if you can calculate the $10 for the customer at the time of the sale, based on my ad info and their zip, why can't you calculate an accurate range of possible charges during ad set-up? That min-max feature is going through a calculation process because, if I change shipping variables, those ranges change... If your range had said $10-$100, I would know I'd have to adjust the handling charge. I am basing cost decisions on what you're showing me eBay, and what you're showing me is not accurate...

Perhaps we will have to stop using the eBay discounted quotes. Maybe that is the answer. (That and setting up combined shipping rules for listings where we might sell more than one at a time, as was also suggested by someone.)

wastingtime101 · ‎01-11-2023

@glgenterprise wrote:
@wastingtime101 wrote:
@replacementradios wrote:
The item is set up with a weight of 2 lbs for quantity one. And a box size of 12"x12"x8".
The first problem is you're offering both USPS and UPS on the same listing with a package that will incur dimensional weight charges through UPS. 12x12x8 / 166 = 7 lb billing weight.

To properly account for UPS dimensional weight you need to enter a 7 lb wt on the listing form, but that would skew the USPS Priority numbers.

For packages that will incur dimensional weight charges, it's usually better to either offer one carrier, or set up rate tables so you can offer multiple carriers with more accurate rates.
Wait, what?

I offer Fedex/UPS/USPS all the time in the same listing with the actual dimensions of the shipping box and the actual, not dimensional, weight of the package. Often with the dimensional weight exceeding the actual weight. I have never had an issue needing to enter dimensional weight in the eBay listing form to get the correct shipping payment from a buyer.

Then eBay must have changed it at some point.

For a while eBay was factoring in dimensional weight for UPS and FedEx, then for a while they weren't. There are countless posts here from sellers that had accurate package weight and dimensions on their listing, then got socked with dimensional charges after the fact, when rates buyers paid were based on actual weight.

If eBay has changed back to factoring in dimensional weight charges for UPS and FedEx that would be excellent news.

GLORIOUS!

wastingtime101 · ‎01-11-2023

@replacementradios wrote:
We're using the eBay discounted UPS quotes because we get a volume discount on our UPS account and we felt the eBay discounted rates were closer to what we pay than UPS published rates. (We do not attempt to profit on shipping, so we want to give the customer a rate as close to our actual rate as possible.)

As indicated, we do input a handling fee. (To cover costs like packaging and/or adjust the shipping amount up if it is calculating too low for a given item.) It was $2 on the item in question at the time of my first post. It has since been upped to $3.

If this method works for you then keep using it. It's definitely the simplest method to add a handling fee that will cover the difference with your negotiated UPS rates, although it will bump up the USPS rates charged to buyers because (much to my dismay) you can't add a handling fee for only one carrier.

If the system is not working, you can either eliminate offering carrier-specific discounts or you can consider using rate tables - that way you can charge rates closer to the ones negotiated on your company's UPS account.

The catch with using rate tables is that you would have to set them up for all carriers, not just UPS because you can't offer calculated USPS and rate table for UPS in the same listing. You have to use flat shipping with rate tables. Then the rate tables need to be updated any time there are rate hikes.

GLORIOUS!

replacementradios · ‎01-11-2023

@glgenterprise

One thing to bear in, OP, when you are shipping items like this - eBay's shipping calculator will account for the weight differential when a buyer orders more than one item in a listing, but the calculator will not double the box size. So when you go to package a purchase of multiple items, you can lose out if you need a bigger box that kicks you into a dimensional weight that is more than your stated weight on a listing.

For example - If you need a 12x12x8 box for one speaker, you likely would need a deeper box for 2 speakers, or one speaker needs a ton of padding to not get destroyed in a way too big box. eBay's calculator will not account for that, so you can lose some money in that scenario. I've had that happen sometimes, particularly with speakers like you are selling.

Thanks for the reminder. I had not mentioned it in the post but we usually set the box size larger than necessary (for quantity one) when it is an item that would commonly be purchased in pairs. We can get two speakers in a 12-12-8 box, for instance. So the weight eBay adds for the second one should, in theory, be all that's needed to result in an accurate calculation on this one.

I need to point out: I was evidently mis-interpreting the 'problem' when I created my first post. I believed eBay was calculating low at the time of purchase, but it appears they are actually calculating high at the time of listing set-up (and/or edit). I was being led to believe the minimum anyone would pay for UPS Ground was $13. (And that would be an accurate starting point... if it were actually true.) I think eBay needs to change the logic for the shipping range displayed in the ad set-up/edit form. They clearly have the ability to calculate $10, since that's what they came up with for the buyer... So why aren't they showing me $10 (or maybe even less) as the minimum in ad set-up? Then I would know to increase the handling fee for that listing. I'd rather them show nothing at all than show me something that is not accurate. What is the point in giving me wrong information, eBay?

stainlessenginecovers · ‎01-11-2023

@replacementradios wrote:
@stainlessenginecovers

"Where are you getting that $13 to $100 from? You are in the middle of the country so nothing should cost $100." -- When you edit an item, under the Domestic Shipping section of the edit listing form, it shows you the range of possible shipping costs. I just double-checked for this listing and it says "Buyer pays $13.24 - $128.81" for the UPS Ground entry. I was assuming eBay used our ad settings (location, weight and box size) and the same method for calculating shipping as they do at the time of purchase, when they know they buyer's actual Zip. Otherwise, if it is not accurate, why present it to the seller during the edit process? (That is a question for eBay, and seems to be a valid one, given people are paying less than $13 AND at least one other person here indicates the rates they were quoted, which was also less than $13, AND it shows as shipping to my home address for $10.52...) This is with a handling charge that is now set at $3... As for the $100+ ($128.81, technically), I am assuming it comes from Hawaii or Alaska. UPS Ground does deliver there but, at least in the case of HI, there is a required air component and the 'Ground' rate goes through the roof, as a result...

We do not use Flat Rate shipping. We want shipping to be calculated. There's too much variance from the lowest cost Zip to the highest for us to be comfortable with Flat Rate. (And most of our items do not fit in actual USPS Flat Rate boxes, so that rules out that answer.) The "each additional" selection you reference in another paragraph only seems to apply if you use flat rate.

"You have UPS Ground as 'standard' and USPS Priority as 'Expedited'. You should just have 1 type (1 company)." -- I disagree, for a couple reasons. One: I feel some buyers might want a choice

You missed just about everything I stated.

1st- FLAT RATE is NOT USPS Flat Rate and has NOTHING to do with their Boxes. It's an 'amount' that YOU choose.

2nd- People DON'T want, or need a choice. You tell them how that item is shipping and the flat rate amount and if they want more than 1- using FLAT RATE pricing- you CAN choose how much 'more' a 2nd one would be

3rd- as I already stated- you are in the middle of the country. There is VERY LITTLE variance between shipping to New York or Cali. If they are 1 state over, you make a little more. The difference is a couple bucks and NOT worth all this grief.