USPS Contradicting eBay on Standard Envelope Shipping

[running_redbirds]

I'm having some issues with eBay and USPS not being on the same page on this "service." I've been going round and round with the local postmaster for a while now over toploaders, semirigid protectors and even thin, flexible cardboard when it comes to nonmachinable requirements. My first thought when eBay announced this option was "hallelujah," as they state up to three toploaded trading cards or even a fifteen-card wax pack can be shipped this way, even suggesting the use of semi-rigid cardboard mailers. However, it appears that eBay may be prompting us to write checks our USPS won't cash. I printed out a couple envelopes (which took forever to format, but is preferable to using overpriced 1/4 page labels) and took them to the local post office, assuming correctly that they would have no idea what they were.

Their response was essentially, "Nope." Anything with a toploader or cardboard layers (like a pack of trading cards, perhaps?) still needs a nonmachinable surcharge according to them, which negates any cost savings advertised by eBay (even a "naked" jersey card with no plastic protection is deemed too rigid for the machines.) But at least we have the piece of mind provided by tracking, right? Not if these envelopes have to be stamped "nonmachinable," as it is was explained to me that the barcodes on these labels are different than those on parcels--not zapped individually with a handheld scanner at the counter but read by sorting machines...which, of course, don't handle nonmachinable envelopes.

If a mandatory nonmachinable surcharge means both added cost and no tracking (thus no seller protection), the only party coming out ahead on this seems to be eBay which gets a) a further cut of shipping costs by brokering the sale of these labels and b) a glut of taxable product as the trading card market becomes flooded with more "nickel-and-dimers" (the marketplace is already full of $1-2 items with free shipping.)

I'm perfectly fine with putting the 55-75 cents worth of postage on low-priced items myself, but I was really hoping this might put and end to countless "where's-the-three-dollar-card-i-bought-last-week" emails and refund claims that eBay pushes through well before the USPS actually gets around to delivering a card. So far, no one has dinged my feedback for either of these (especially since their "free" cards--and/or replacements--almost always turn up a few days after they get their cash back), but I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

I know a lot of card sellers are pretty high on this new option, but that's because these envelopes haven't had time to start coming back in droves marked "postage due." Sure, I can dump them at an out-of-town post office where they may be more "flexible" on their definition of "rigid," but all it takes is one snag at any point along the way...and there are many points along the way.

Admittedly just days removed from being forced into managed payments (and learning that from now on I'll be charged 12.35% on each buyer's sales tax obligation in addition to FVFs and transaction fees on item price and shipping costs), I can't help but feel this is just another reminder that eBay is much better at sticking their fingers into pies than they are at cooking up any real solutions...

[mr_lincoln]

@running_redbirds   Look on one of your monthly bills, like a credit card bill ... below the address for the addressee is the type of code the postal machines read at amazing speeds.  Some of those are actually printed on the outside of the return envelope and not on the position of the bill that goes INSIDE the envelope.  I've seen some of those high-speed sorting machines work and you are right in that one hiccup and the system can jam ...

[no_zero369]

I hear your frustration on all of this!  Not sure this program was well thought out.  Then again any new program will have some start-up pains as users figure out how things work.

But does a $3 card need to be shipped in something rigid?  Doesn't that level of value indicate it could be bent in the machinable process?

Then I have to wonder if this new "tracking" really is 'to-the-door' tracking and how INR cases will be decided when a buyer claims non-delivery when tracking shows delivered?  Maybe this is a benefit to sellers or scammers?

But bless your soul, selling such low cost items for the smallest of returns!

[running_redbirds]

Well, I certainly could spare a $3 card to feed the ghosts in the machines now and then, but to the trading card enthusiast--like most other collectors--condition and variation are really the biggest parts of the "game" and a hundred different $3 items are just as important to some as a single $300 item (and many a $3 item from yesteryear might well be worth $300 today if it hadn't gone through a machine unprotected; I've seen a few that have literally been "through the wash.")

However, eBay recommends this envelope for items up to $20; while not every card is a '52 Topps Mickey Mantle, they are minor investments that justify a few cent worth of plastic protection...

[wooperwares]

I had a very stubborn USPS employee too. Thankfully the supervisor listened and tried to seek more information.

I've been dropping these in the letter collection boxes. They've been arriving no issue. I use a top loader.

Sorry for the issues. You'd think USPS would be aware of the new product.

[donsdetour]

"Sorry for the issues. You'd think USPS would be aware of the new product."

Probably have not even informed the employees of such a thing. 

Lucky the items even get to the purchasers these days.

[no_zero369]

LOL OK I see where you are coming from as a seller and card enthusiast.  I guess I was thinking about it like an ungraded bullion coin with obvious flaws that sells near spot.  An extra scuff while not ideal doesn't effect the over all value to a bullion buyer.

But yeah as a seller one does want to protect their items against shipping damage.  I agree.

But reading the TOS for the Standard Envelop it looks like there are prohibitions on the use of plastics.  Yousa!

And then it looks like if USPS doesn't like how you packaged it they can upcharge you !

Parcels that are inappropriately packaged

We may not accept items for delivery which in the reasonable opinion of our Carriers are inappropriately packaged. Carriers may, in their sole discretion, decide to repack your Parcel to comply with certain requirements for which you may incur additional charges to cover the price of repackaging. Please note that Carriers are under no obligation to secure the safety of your shipments nor to carry out any repackaging. By using our Services you acknowledge in these circumstances that additional charges may be levied (see paragraph 9) or that your Parcel may be rejected. We shall not be liable or responsible for any damage caused to Parcels that are inappropriately packaged or are repackaged by Carriers as a result of their being inappropriately packaged.

https://pages.ebay.com/sell/standarddelivery/termsofservice.html

[running_redbirds]

The plastic I'm referring to is just a thin case that slips over a card inside the envelope, no more thick or rigid than credit cards which are mailed all the time -- and the same toploaders eBay advises using with these envelopes. The plastic mentioned in the guidelines above refers to the envelope/outer packaging (like the waterproof polybags some books/magazines are mailed in...)

[schiz51]

Can I tape the label on the letter or is the tape considered plastic?

[running_redbirds]

I've never had any issue with taping a small cutout address onto an envelope or even neatly taping the envelope edge for reinforcement against tears (sometimes I even tape the toploader to the inside of the envelope as high-speed sorting machines can occasionally shoot them through the seam), but these new labels are fairly large and would require four long strips of tape. Adhesive labels are better but can get very pricey; I'd prefer to just print them directly onto the envelope which saves quite a bit of labor...

[schiz51]

yea I tried that, kept on getting an error. I ordered 200 labels on amazon for $13.  I shipped 5 out today with taped on labels, mail man took them so hoping they are ok with taped on label.

[nowfree2beme]

About half of my envelopes are updating with tracking information and half aren't.  Getting really frustrated with buyers emailing on those labels that aren't updating, asking if their cards have been shipped.  And now EBay's hitting my 'tracking report' with defects for not having a 'carrier scan' and/or not showing them scanned as delivered.  These are THEIR labels and they are purchased through THEIR system, and they aren't being scanned reliably by the post office.  As a seller I'm getting frustrated with my account standing potentially taking a hit for something that their labels aren't consistently delivering on...tracking...as they promised.  And then they also don't give us an effective way to reach out to EBay to get answers or assistance.  I may have to go back to charging more for my packages for shipping, and go back to the regular first class package shipping in order to get reliable tracking information and to protect my seller account ratings.  Really disappointed.

[no_zero369]

@nowfree2beme 

Yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do - whatever in you estimation is good for your business.

I'm not a seller that uses the SE, but from a 30,000-ft perspective it looks like this program has a bunch of holes in it. 

• Tracking that doesn't show "accepted" so buyers doubting item has shipped.  They have been habituated on one way and now shown something else
• Tracking that doesn't prove absolutely "delivered" so some may claim non-delivery falsely
• Tracking that doesn't always work or show up at all
• An eBay 'self insurance" of this program for non-delivery - when it starts to cost too much, eBay will end it.

I think this is a live trial or Beta version of  the program.  I suspect with as many issues we are seeing that it won't expand to other areas and will die on the vine.

[kosmosattik]

running_redbirds - 

I read your post and this thread with some interest since I've considered trying this card shipping option.

What you didn't do is present specific examples of what the PO would not accept:  the specific kind of envelope or packaging and specifically what you put in it.  If you used a plain white letter envelope with a pack of cards in it or a couple top loaders I could see how this might be a problem since that might be contrary to what they say is acceptable for the machines that read letters.

You know, ebay's instructional help pages sound good superficially but are notoriously vague when you get down to the nitty gritty, step-by-step, of doing something.   This one isn't much different.  I'm looking right now at piece describing what you can ship in one list and the acceptable packing in another list, which sounds good, but it may be that an item in the one column needs specific packing in the other.  It would appear the right non-envelope mailers would handle any of the allowed items, but can a PWE?       

[kosmosattik]

There are over 31,000 post office facilities in the US and 13,000 federal employees with a postmaster title.  Advice of this new postal method was probably sent in a email or a messaging system or a memo.

You can imagine many of these managers glossed over that in these recent weeks and months of postal service turmoil, first the mail-in ballots, through the historically heavy holiday load, heavy loads continuing with Covid-19 on-line buying, now a Texas disaster.  I imagine you could walk into a number of these facilities and nobody would know what you're talking about.

Like many things in this life, if you're an early adopter of something new be prepared to be somebody's live beta tester.  They don't call it the "bleeding edge" for nothing.  At least nobody will die like Testa drivers thinking their car can drive autonomously.  Judging from the comments, I think I'll wait 6 months or so before giving this new process a whirl.