Sellers need to blame themselves for issues encountered from USPS shipping delays!

[powell-memorabilia]

My heart goes out to sellers significantly impacted by USPS shipping delays.  I’ve had my share of worry about lack of scans at the post office, items stuck in limbo, potential INR’s, etc..  However, It is time for sellers to stop whining about the USPS and delivery delays.  We’ve all had the opportunity and vent, but now is the time to act like functioning adults, take responsibility for our mistakes, and move on. 

Let’s not pretend that sellers shipping mid-November and onwards didn’t understand that there might be issues with shipping delays.  Come on – the first COVID lockdowns weren’t that long ago, and we all knew that B&M retail was taking a huge hit this year, and that the USPS/FedEx/UPS would be slammed.  Me, I got a bit greedy – shipped media mail when I should have upgraded to priority, used the prepaid drop box instead of waiting in line for an actual scan, and waited a few days longer than I should have to put my store on vacation mode.  Those mistakes are on me, not on my buyers, not on eBay, not on the USPS (no, I don’t want to join your sure-to-never-launch class action suit).

The same sellers that are adamant that they “own” their selling, and outraged that eBay would dictate MP, are now crying that eBay is siding with buyers on items that have been “lost” for several weeks and didn’t make it in time for Christmas? If you own it, own it.  If not, take whatever comes your way, and stop complaining.  Life happens - deal with it.

eBay is the facilitator – but we own our performance.  We choose the carrier, we decide when to sell, we control pricing.  If you can’t deal with it, absolutely, shut it down until the situation is accommodating to your selling constraints.  Come on – let’s grow up, learn from our mistakes, and come back better than before.   

[no_zero369]

@kythrill 

WOW!  I am going to book mark this and hope many other sellers will do so too!  This is a perfect tutorial on what sellers COULD do to protect them self in these unusual times!  From reading these threads many sellers could benefit from adapting your procedure!

Excellent!   Kudos!

[dbfolks166mt]

     The major difference is both FedEx and UPS are private companies so once the surge is over they have no problem simply letting those individuals go. USPS is a federal organization and it is not so easy for a government entity to simply hire part time help and then RIFF them once the surge or crisis has passed. 

[no_zero369]

Yeah, ok.  My bad.  Help me out next time with a footnote or use some emojis?  I couldn't hear your voice inflection....😋😁

[no_zero369]

@powell-memorabilia 

I see from another poster in this thread that a "hack" to eBay's 10-day extension is to indeed file the Step 2 of the Missing Mail process.  It appears as though that inquiry generates an update on the tracking information and eBay's system "sees" that update and adjusts the extension accordingly. After all doesn't the new eBay Announcements say "if there is no updates to the tracking in 10-days?"  Day 8 file the USPS inquiry.....

PS - if appropriate, I hope you are filing Package Intercepts for anything refunded?

[dbfolks166mt]

     Could not agree more about the pro-active approach by a number of sellers.   The big question is where the hell was eBay's customer support for their sellers during this mess. Maybe it's time they did something extra to earn the fees they are charging rather than just saying it's not our problem. 

[dbfolks166mt]

     Yes both UPS and FedEx are having their own problems and it may get worse since they are the two carriers the government has elected to contract with for the COVIND vaccine distribution. They have basically divided the country UPS has one half and FedEx has the other. I am pretty sure the COVID vaccine is going to get priority over everything else. 

https://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/fedex_and_ups_are_ready_and_equipped_to_handle_covid_19_vaccin... 

[stephenmorgan]

f you went outside of eBay to arrange your shipment then that is on you.

What does that mean? 

It means as far as expecting eBay to resolve your shipping issues they are less likely to get involved.  A tracking number can be inserted after a Sale to show you shipped something.  Inserting a tracking number is not necessarily proof you mailed anything.  

So if I use PirateShip.com or Stamps.com or some other reseller of USPS postage that I am at fault for something?  Nope, you are not a fault for anything.  However do not expect eBay to back you up if something goes wrong with you shipping choice.  That view could be interpreted to be an eBay lackey saying that only buying eBay labels is acceptable.  In a sense you could say that, however that is not what I mean at all.  Doesn't matter where I buy a label as long as the tracking number is uploaded to eBay and an acceptance scan meets my stated handling time.   I am sure that you are correct that it does not matter.  My point is that by using eBay services they should not penalize you as long as you mailed you item on time.

Sellers who utilized the shipping tools that eBay provided for their use and shipped the item on time are in no way at fault for delays.

Again what does using eBay shipping tools have to do with anything?  If you do everything thru eBay, you utilized eBay shipping tools and you ship on time how is it possible they can Ding you for a shipment not arriving on time?  If you were Dinged you should be able to have eBay remove it.  No one is saying that sellers are at fault for delays, in fact eBay extended times for INR cases to be resolved.  Do not even know what you are getting at with that statement.  The first post to this discussion is titled "Sellers need to blame themselves for issues encountered from USPS shipping delays!"  I certainly take that to mean that there is an opinion that Sellers are at fault for something.  There has been discussion of forced refunds for INR cases and a seller getting a Defect for it.  What sellers appear to have consistently NOT done is manage buyer expectations.  i.e. communicate with them about delays and pledge to watch tracking and use tools available to goose stuck packages along.  Well you see this is what discussions are all about.  What works for you may not work for someone else.  I have never had a INR Case against me so what I am doing works.  But that does not mean it work for all sellers.

[powell-memorabilia]

If the value is high enough - yes.  

[no_zero369]

@stephenmorgan 

OK, I'll try to respond to your comments but I suspect you are not going to like the answers. 😶  Please don't shoot them messenger! 😇

I think you have a false impression.  Nothing in eBay's user agreement nor policies suggests, implies or states that there is any advantage or penalty to using or not using labels purchased through eBay.  So I have no idea where anyone would get the impression that using a label from other than eBay would mean that eBay is less likely to get involved in resolving an issue.  Also there is no implied contract that using eBay labels provides any protection against later delivery dings or any other issue.  What proof do you have of these assertions? 

Yes, inserting a tracking number is no proof of shipping anything.  You have that correct.  What it states in the eBay policy is that eBay uses the first scan, the acceptance scan as proof of mailing.  That is why it makes zero sense if one is worried about seller metrics to toss your package into a blue box, one of the bins in a lobby or just place them on the counter and walk away.  IF a seller wants proof of mailing they have to observe the scan of their package (and get a receipt?).    That has nothing to do with eBay.  The policy on the acceptance scan is eBay's "rule".  As such we all agreed to abide by those rules when we signed up to sell here.

eBay has a VAST database of shipping information that has been collected over the years as sellers use eBay's shipping accounts.  I suspect that eBay uses that database along with some AI to set the time that it "normally" takes for a package to travel from any Point A to any other Point B.  That is how I suspect that eBay sets estimated delivery dates (EDDs).  But any seller should know that the Blues have stated that the EDD becomes part of the Listing and as such a missed EDD is a valid reason for a SNAD case.  Again, there are the rules that eBay has established and sellers have always been held to them per the User Agreement.  I recognize that many sellers are not aware of some of the intricacies of the policies and rules.  That doesn't absolve sellers from the consequences.  There is an old joke that illustrates this point, from a Steve Martin bit: But Your Honor, I FORGOT armed robbery was illegal!

So if one gets their head around to the fact that they decided to sell on eBay and eBay's rules lock them into being responsible for the shipper they select meeting the EDD, then one can have a different perspective on their job as a seller.  The fact that there might be a delay in any shipment at any time presents a RISK to any seller.  So what do sellers do when they realize they are "at risk" with one of eBay's policies?  One option is to complain, scream, yell, state that eBay should do something.  Another is to be resigned that they think it isn't fair, but have no power over shipping and sit back and do nothing.  And yet another is to recognize there is a risk and be proactive to mange their business to mitigate or manage any risks.  From this chair it looks like the proactive approach works wonders - see post #49 by @kythrill 

Next it was stated that there was no idea what the statement "No one is saying that sellers are at fault for delays, in fact eBay extended times for INR cases to be resolved. " means.  What it means is that eBay made a seller accommodating change to their policies in response to the numerous shipping delays.  Such change was posted on these threads and the announcement was made in the seller news section.  Go here to read the policy adjustment on extended time for INR cases - something eBay did to help sellers!  Again, sellers need to keep pace with eBay policies and changes.  Sellers have a tool they use to sell and hopefully turn a profit.  It makes sense to periodically look for any changes or upgrades.

So in conclusion - IF sellers are having a problem or numerous ones ( 257!) then a seller needs to step back and look at their business plan and make adjustments.  As I noted above the issue with INR Cases has a solution as  expertly laid out in post #49.  Alternatively one can choose to want someone to do for them.  In my view that  someone else  fix it for me "strategy" is going to wipe them out.  Look when this crisis hit, it hit restaurants pretty darn hard.  Those who wanted to survive adapted - if that meant changes they did it: getting their menu online, offering take out service and in some cases offering outdoor dining (where permitted).  When restrictions were eased they adapted to social distancing spacing for tables.  As the weather cooled some built tents "outside" with heaters, etc.  Some restaurants made no changes and closed up shop.  So why is selling on eBay any different?  There are risks to shipping these days - are sellers going to be like the dudes who started take out and outside dining or the ones who quit and closed up shop?

What I find particularly interesting is that selling on eBay IS a business.  Also of interest is the fact that may "in business" through eBay selling do not recognize it as being "in business" and thus do not learn , adjust or adapt.  It sure looks easy but in reality it is anything but.  But the nice thing is that these forums provide a "cheat" or free advice on how to run your business - something you might pay a consultant to do.  So sellers can get ideas or methods to integrate into their "business plan" in order to have success if they so desire.

Stylistic Note - next time you want to emphasize something on the threads please use the blue font and no need to bold it the red font comes across as argumentative, aggressive and shouting.  It also makes things hard to read.  I almost avoided answering because of the perceived aggressiveness.  We are just discussing things here, trading ideas.

Best wishes to your selling! ✌️

[calntom]

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@va-8501 wrote:

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@powell-memorabilia wrote:

... just would love to see a return of personal accountability for actions and inactions.   

90% of the threads on the shipping delays are purely for deflection - not information gathering, not about how to better approach the situation, not admissions of what a seller could/should have done differently, not any lessons learned for next time.  If people don't want to understand that there are things they can do to mitigate issues ...  

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You say we should be talking about information gathering, a better approach, what could have been done better or differently to mitigate issues.  USPS and ebay aren't part of the equation?  With the $billions of revenues, assets, and systems USPS has it's all on us sellers? 

Actually it's simple.  Have you ever heard of root cause analysis?  The first step is identifying the problem.  This will lead you to corrective action by the responsible party.  USPS Late delivery is a symptom of the problem.  The problem is promising 2 to 3 day Priority Mail delivery during a period where the data (information gathering) clearly shows 2 to 3 day delivery is a bald face lie when packages are taking up to 3 weeks.

It's not a just a few misses.  If that were the case, the 'shipping-returns' forum wouldn't be this riddled with discussion about it, and you wouldn't have found the need to write your stupid dissertation on it, and ebay wouldn't have found the need to make some adjustment to their INR refund timing policy. 

When it's this blatant, yes, it's a bald face lie courtesy of USPS.  Their late deliveries started before Thanksgiving.   Yet all through this debacle they quoted 2 or 3 day delivery on their Priority labels, and on their website under 'Quick Tools' --> Calculate Postage. 

Information gathering?  Who has all the information?  USPS does. 

And so does ebay, they use it to penalize sellers for what USPS didn't do.

I was involved in an ISO-9001 certification.  The most important KPI (key performance indicator) is OTD (On Time Delivery).  At the heart of the certification is "Say What You Do, Do What You Say"

Truth will gain you trust.  If USPS says delivery in 2 to 3 days, then USPS should do it. 

If they can't, then they should be saying what they are able to do.  If it takes 2 weeks, so be it, 2 weeks is what you say!

We have responsible sellers on these forums pulling their hair out trying different strategies to force adjustments to the 2 to 3 day lies that USPS gives us.  I have read suggestions of increasing handling times, or  taking the "time out option, continue to sell" to extend delivery time.  But that just gets defeated when you ship early in an attempt to counteract the USPS lies of 2 to 3 days, which defaults.  I see suggestions to extend handling time and buy your label on a different platform.  Then don't upload the tracking number until well after you actually shipped the item to give yourself more time.  Basically telling ebay and the customer a lie to work around USPS dishonest delivery times. 

What makes you think that we sellers aren't following our shipments and keeping our buyers informed? 

Where do you get off implying that sellers here aren't proactively trying to take corrective action over a situation they don't control.  In the end, USPS sets the bald face lie delivery date, and ebay pulls it in knowing it's a bald face lie.  Don't try to tell me ebay doesn't know those delivery dates are a lie.  If they didn't know it they wouldn't have posted their 10 day extension policy.  

What are you saying, the seller has responsibility for fixing the lie perpetuated by USPS?  USPS and eBay aren't part of the equation?  You sound like my local Post Master screaming at me, as if she paid for the postage.  

As stated, the problem is completely unreliable and dishonest USPS expected delivery times which drives buyer expectations and eBay's INR refund time line. 

Corrective Action:  Based on the aggregate actual ship date/delivery date data, USPS should have  re-stated the delivery times to what is actually being experienced.  The only data I have is for my own shipments, all of which were late.  I could do a fairly accurate job of publishing delivery times for my next item, but ebay won't accept mine, they only accept the lie from USPS.

Responsible Party:  USPS and Ebay, they have the aggregate  data, they have the systems, all they have to do is publish realistic delivery times based on the data they have.  USPS sure doesn't seem to have a problem systematically raising their postage rates, why can't they adjust their delivery times?

So why didn't USPS and eBay do the right thing?  It would have cost USPS and ebay revenue.  A lot of purchases would not have been made if the honest realistic 10 to 20 day delivery time was quoted.  Further, USPS and eBay have no skin in this game.  Cost of Priority shipping is non-refundable for late or lost packages.  And ebay forces the seller to refund on INR cases.   

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The bottom line was/is switching carriers from USPS Priority to UPS or FedEx to mitigate risk. 

Everyone knew USPS was not going to cut it this year. Changing carriers is something the seller has control over.

Throw caution to the wind = USPS

Mitigate Risk = UPS or FedEx

Eliminate Risk = Toggle store to vacation mode

[glasser]

@no_zero369

Not saying sellers should do nothing, Many sellers going out of their way to provide customer service and communicate with buyers. Many have issued refunds on their own to make sellers happy without waiting for an eBay determination.

Saying that OP said everyone should have seen this coming and acted accordingly. That was unrealistic.  Again, a full USPS meltdown. Did you predict that.

What I was trying to say that current USPS crisis is not just an inconvenience for buyers and sellers. It is actually an existential threat to eBay. If someone didn't get a holiday package they will blame the seller and eBay. When they talk to friends that won't say don't use seller X they will say don't use eBay you will never get your purchase. 

eBay can, and should, intervene to protect the reputational legitimacy of the marketplace. They have yet to do so. Only tinkered around the edges.

Remember, my customer today on eBay could be yours tomorrow. If the whole eBay experience has left a sour taste in a customers mouth, they may not come back to buy from you. 

eBay is not just a venue. It's a brand related to a customer (both buyers and sellers) experience created collectively by everyone on the site. 

eBay needs to step up and protect that brand. Amazing that they haven't realized that.

[glasser]

"Let me say this again. Sellers DO have some control over the "buying experience" and CAN (if they wish) manage buyer expectations as to delivery.  So one is welcome to shift the blame to the USPS as they are an easy fall guy or one can adapt their selling to manage in the crisis in a way that is to the seller's benefit.  I'd rather be proactive as I think it has a better return than finger pointing. er, at least in my view.  I guess everyone is free to disagree.  Just saying."

OK. but most people didn't know there was USPS crisis until items were in the mail and stalled. There was no notification of pending delays. Once issue known people can take steps, like I have. Telling buyers I will ship UPS and FeEx. If they really want USPS and I don't recommend it, they need to aware it could take a month.

FYI, I still have a package mailed 12/5 that has not moved beyond first distribution center. How would I have known that was happening?

[no_zero369]

@glasser 

I really like your views about the eBay brand.

What I think is happening is that the responsibility for the "buyer experience" is left up to the seller to manage.

Sadly many buyers aren't sophisticated enough to differentiate one bad seller for the over all platform or brand.  Just not sure what eBay can or should do to defend its brand when all shipping is grid locked.  At what point do buyers put on their big person pants and accept that system wide grid lock is at fault and not sellers and not eBay?

But I suspect that eBay had the data or metrics to be able to "see" how this grid lock is or will effect their brand.  If the C-suite is doing their job they will react to that.  If the effect is minimal then nothing will be done.

[ra_201044]

eBay needs to step up and protect that brand. Amazing that they haven't realized that.

Ebay trashed their own brand back in 2008.

[calntom]

Buyers have and are experiencing the same across all platforms when buying from 3rd party sellers. Not much difference from eBay as compared to Amazon. Sellers experiencing the same as well.

Same exact thing can be said for us waiting almost 3 weeks for a part for our dryer that was under warranty that was ordered by a service contractor.