Sellers need to blame themselves for issues encountered from USPS shipping delays!

[powell-memorabilia]

My heart goes out to sellers significantly impacted by USPS shipping delays.  I’ve had my share of worry about lack of scans at the post office, items stuck in limbo, potential INR’s, etc..  However, It is time for sellers to stop whining about the USPS and delivery delays.  We’ve all had the opportunity and vent, but now is the time to act like functioning adults, take responsibility for our mistakes, and move on. 

Let’s not pretend that sellers shipping mid-November and onwards didn’t understand that there might be issues with shipping delays.  Come on – the first COVID lockdowns weren’t that long ago, and we all knew that B&M retail was taking a huge hit this year, and that the USPS/FedEx/UPS would be slammed.  Me, I got a bit greedy – shipped media mail when I should have upgraded to priority, used the prepaid drop box instead of waiting in line for an actual scan, and waited a few days longer than I should have to put my store on vacation mode.  Those mistakes are on me, not on my buyers, not on eBay, not on the USPS (no, I don’t want to join your sure-to-never-launch class action suit).

The same sellers that are adamant that they “own” their selling, and outraged that eBay would dictate MP, are now crying that eBay is siding with buyers on items that have been “lost” for several weeks and didn’t make it in time for Christmas? If you own it, own it.  If not, take whatever comes your way, and stop complaining.  Life happens - deal with it.

eBay is the facilitator – but we own our performance.  We choose the carrier, we decide when to sell, we control pricing.  If you can’t deal with it, absolutely, shut it down until the situation is accommodating to your selling constraints.  Come on – let’s grow up, learn from our mistakes, and come back better than before.   

[va-8501]

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@powell-memorabilia wrote:

... just would love to see a return of personal accountability for actions and inactions.   

90% of the threads on the shipping delays are purely for deflection - not information gathering, not about how to better approach the situation, not admissions of what a seller could/should have done differently, not any lessons learned for next time.  If people don't want to understand that there are things they can do to mitigate issues ...  

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You say we should be talking about information gathering, a better approach, what could have been done better or differently to mitigate issues.  USPS and ebay aren't part of the equation?  With the $billions of revenues, assets, and systems USPS has it's all on us sellers? 

Actually it's simple.  Have you ever heard of root cause analysis?  The first step is identifying the problem.  This will lead you to corrective action by the responsible party.  USPS Late delivery is a symptom of the problem.  The problem is promising 2 to 3 day Priority Mail delivery during a period where the data (information gathering) clearly shows 2 to 3 day delivery is a bald face lie when packages are taking up to 3 weeks.

It's not a just a few misses.  If that were the case, the 'shipping-returns' forum wouldn't be this riddled with discussion about it, and you wouldn't have found the need to write your stupid dissertation on it, and ebay wouldn't have found the need to make some adjustment to their INR refund timing policy. 

When it's this blatant, yes, it's a bald face lie courtesy of USPS.  Their late deliveries started before Thanksgiving.   Yet all through this debacle they quoted 2 or 3 day delivery on their Priority labels, and on their website under 'Quick Tools' --> Calculate Postage. 

Information gathering?  Who has all the information?  USPS does. 

And so does ebay, they use it to penalize sellers for what USPS didn't do.

I was involved in an ISO-9001 certification.  The most important KPI (key performance indicator) is OTD (On Time Delivery).  At the heart of the certification is "Say What You Do, Do What You Say"

Truth will gain you trust.  If USPS says delivery in 2 to 3 days, then USPS should do it. 

If they can't, then they should be saying what they are able to do.  If it takes 2 weeks, so be it, 2 weeks is what you say!

We have responsible sellers on these forums pulling their hair out trying different strategies to force adjustments to the 2 to 3 day lies that USPS gives us.  I have read suggestions of increasing handling times, or  taking the "time out option, continue to sell" to extend delivery time.  But that just gets defeated when you ship early in an attempt to counteract the USPS lies of 2 to 3 days, which defaults.  I see suggestions to extend handling time and buy your label on a different platform.  Then don't upload the tracking number until well after you actually shipped the item to give yourself more time.  Basically telling ebay and the customer a lie to work around USPS dishonest delivery times. 

What makes you think that we sellers aren't following our shipments and keeping our buyers informed? 

Where do you get off implying that sellers here aren't proactively trying to take corrective action over a situation they don't control.  In the end, USPS sets the bald face lie delivery date, and ebay pulls it in knowing it's a bald face lie.  Don't try to tell me ebay doesn't know those delivery dates are a lie.  If they didn't know it they wouldn't have posted their 10 day extension policy.  

What are you saying, the seller has responsibility for fixing the lie perpetuated by USPS?  USPS and eBay aren't part of the equation?  You sound like my local Post Master screaming at me, as if she paid for the postage.  

As stated, the problem is completely unreliable and dishonest USPS expected delivery times which drives buyer expectations and eBay's INR refund time line. 

Corrective Action:  Based on the aggregate actual ship date/delivery date data, USPS should have  re-stated the delivery times to what is actually being experienced.  The only data I have is for my own shipments, all of which were late.  I could do a fairly accurate job of publishing delivery times for my next item, but ebay won't accept mine, they only accept the lie from USPS.

Responsible Party:  USPS and Ebay, they have the aggregate  data, they have the systems, all they have to do is publish realistic delivery times based on the data they have.  USPS sure doesn't seem to have a problem systematically raising their postage rates, why can't they adjust their delivery times?

So why didn't USPS and eBay do the right thing?  It would have cost USPS and ebay revenue.  A lot of purchases would not have been made if the honest realistic 10 to 20 day delivery time was quoted.  Further, USPS and eBay have no skin in this game.  Cost of Priority shipping is non-refundable for late or lost packages.  And ebay forces the seller to refund on INR cases.   

[glasser]

Disagree, Not 100%.

The issue is not who should have known when. Sure everyone thought busy online season.  So yeah maybe having an earlier cutoff date for selling to get things in time for Christmas was something to possibly anticipate.

But a total meltdown of the USPS? Come on that's an extraordinary event and yet to be resolved.

The real issues is eBay's failure to deal with it now that it's happening. They basically tacked a few days on to expected  handling and delivery times  without acting on the real situation where packages are running 3+weeks late. We all know in the end many of these packages will arrive to buyers who have received a refund from a seller and the buyer will have goods and money back. eBay needs to have skin in the game to pr0tect the integrity of the marketplace they can't just use sellers money to back up their service guarantee when the whole system is broken right now.

IMHO, eBay should have instituted a moratorium on paying out claims for items not received until the dust settles. They could still do that and say no claims will be paid until 1/31/2021 and let some of the air clear.  They could allow more liberal returns for gifts that have aged out and allow sellers get merchandise back before returning funds in the normal fashion. Or even better, if they needed to payout some of those claims themselves.  If the loses are the cost of doing business for sellers it is also the cost of doing business for eBay. 

They could have had pop up warnings about problems in shipments. It is not hard for them to know just how many items have not arrived (assuming sellers are using their shipping systems) so they know exactly how bad the problem. Heck, they probably have better visibility into the issue the the USPS since eBay actually knows how many packages have been sent and are in transit arriving late.

In fact they know exactly which items those are and could be sending messages to buyers that they are aware of the delay, keeping tabs on the situation, and that payouts will be made when the air clears and counsel patience.

You can not claim to be a venue only and the force sellers to adhere to a rule that is fundamentally not achievable. Who knows, eBay may even be able to make an insurance claim for a disruption in service to cover the loses.

So ok every knew it was going to be a tougher year. Then everyone, includi8ng eBay should have done their part.

[raplk]

Well, my sellers all shipped priority.  Today even a single priority post card is now 12 days in the mail, and its the least late, others over 3 weeks.  You are blaming the wrong people my friend.  Using the Covid Gambit for every problem in Amerika is just not honest.  Major sorting hubs need to step up and hire extra employees, unless no one wants to work.  Then getting unemployment might be more preferable than being employed by the usps. 

[worldwide_ship]

I partly agree with the op. As a veteran seller I feel bad I made the wrong choice shipping with the Post Office this holiday season. I ship 50 - 100 packages Priority Mail every day so it would have been hard for me to just switch to another carrier.  

That being said I tried to do my research by reading the USPS press releases and contacting eBay for advice. The problem was eBay was NOT extending their guaranteed delivery dates knowing there we 2 to 3 week delays, and in the press release the USPS stated "we are experiencing 2 to 3 day delays." Both companies knew the delays were a lot longer but lied about the scope of the problem to protect their bottom lines. 

As of now I have 30 IRN cases open and 10 "arrived late" returns. This is horrible on all levels. 

[kythrill]

You are right and wrong to a certain extent.  If you shipped it and forgot it, then you probably didn't do enough.  You may be deserving of some of the troubles that resulted.

Personally, I tracked every single Item shipped starting Nov. 30.  If there wasn't a tracking update in 7 days, I filed an inquiry with the USPS.  Sometimes I actually got real info (like a package that was scanned on two manifests out of Chicago, one to the correct location and  the other incorrect, and it didn't arrive at the correct location, so we knew it was misrouted and delayed additionally).  Sometimes I got canned responses ("USPS is busy.")

However, each inquiry created a tracking scan, which appears to have extended the 3 week protection E-Bay offered.  And in every case where I had to file an inquiry, I also reached out to the customer to let them know what was going on (because they would see it in the tracking).

During this period, I also switched to taking packages to the post office six days per week, instead of my usual three. Every day would be critical in getting an on time delivery.

On 12/14, I also began advising buyers who wanted to know if it would be there by Christmas, that it likely would not, even by Priority.  I began advising some to use Express, if it was an absolute must have by Christmas situation.  Some took that option and others rolled the dice (BTW, Express option did 100% bypass all the delays if buyer was willing to pay).

But with them making the choice, they seemed to accept a late shipment better, since they were advised, given a faster option, and they chose the cheaper option.

It was much more work than I usually do, but so far it appears to have paid off.  Zero INR. Zero negatives from delayed packages.  Which so far, ZERO lost shipments, even though a handful placed the week before Christmas still aren't delivered (the buyers were probably not expecting a 12/24 delivery when ordering on 12/23 anyway), and one media mail shipment from Dec 4, which just arrived at the final delivery unit (so maybe delivered today and not updated yet).

So as a seller, there was more you could do during this unprecedented time.  If you chose to do nothing like that, then maybe you should accept some of the blowback.  But if you took extraordinary steps during an extraordinary time, hopefully you were spared the brunt of any negative outcomes.

[rocky150]

Not a full time seller, I go in spurts of selling, been here 20 years average price of item sold $115 , I want My buyer to receive their item in a timely manner !   USPS has now shown on this FIRST meltdown that may not happen !   I do NOT want caught in the middle, FedEx got My last item sold to a brand new eBay buyer fast  during the USPS meltdown, guess who I will be using !    USPS priority has not meant a lot, still have not received  one item that was shipped on Dec 1 from just 2 1/2 hours away, second one shipped from Georgia to Ohio shipped on Dec 9 !    USPS has been GREAT for years but in Our new world things might be changing !

t

[no_zero369]

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@stephenmorgan wrote:

Why was this post edited to appear that I support jonavanbod_0 ?  I do not support their conclusion at all.

If you went outside of eBay to arrange your shipment then that is on you. 

Sellers who utilized the shipping tools that eBay provided for their use and shipped the item on time are in no way at fault for delays.  

The buyer has a responsibility to know your shipping options and make a choice if they want to buy your item.  As far as USPS, nothing has a guaranteed delivery date unless you pay for a Express Delivery Service.  Everything else is a Estimate based on several factors.

I looked at one of my items to ship Priority Mail to my Zip 88310 (6 miles) and it says between Jan 11 - 13.  I looked at the same item shipped to 10001 (near 2000 miles) and it says delivery between Jan 9 - 12.  That is a very long time, so what is it that I could possibly do to shorten the shipping time?  

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Oh my, I see we have a divergence of opinion here.  Sigh

If you went outside of eBay to arrange your shipment then that is on you.

What does that mean?  So if I use PirateShip.com or Stamps.com or some other reseller of USPS postage that I am at fault for something?  That view could be interpreted to be an eBay lackey saying that only buying eBay labels is acceptable.  Doesn't matter where I buy a label as long as the tracking number is uploaded to eBay and an acceptance scan meets my stated handling time. 

Sellers who utilized the shipping tools that eBay provided for their use and shipped the item on time are in no way at fault for delays.

Again what does using eBay shipping tools have to do with anything?  No one is saying that sellers are at fault for delays, in fact eBay extended times for INR cases to be resolved.  What sellers appear to have consistently NOT done is manage buyer expectations.  i.e. communicate with them about delays and pledge to watch tracking and use tools available to goose stuck packages along.

[no_zero369]

@zayo2723 

I would say that rather than a "mistake" many buyers had a "missed opportunity" to shape the "buying experience" in a way that favored the seller.

Sometimes one has to fend for them self and that often means going above and beyond the "standard guidance" of eBay.  Sounds like you did many good things and I especially like that you provided a tracking number to the buyer right away.  But did you pledge in that email to keep an eye on the progress?  When the package hit a snag did you contact the buyer before they noticed it?  Did you start the 2-step Missing Mail process and report those actions to the buyer?

Point is that many sellers who went beyond the "standard guidance" and executed those extra steps were able to avoid INR cases. 

So just a thought on an alternative approach.  Everyone is free to be open to new ideas and other ways of operating or decide to make no changes.  That is what is nice about a capitalist system, it eventually creates winners and losers and those that adapt to what the market dictates survive and thrive.  Others rail away, flail around and eventually fail.

[no_zero369]

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@*smedley* wrote:

everything is the seller's fault...

got it...

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I think one is missing the larger picture.  When BIG business encounters a speed bump, they do a lot of naval gazing and look at their procedures and look for ways to change, adapt and improve.  Those who are nimble and can dance, thrive in the middle of diversity and beyond.  Those that are too big to dance are essentially dinosaurs. 

So why isn't it a good thing for small sellers to examine their operations periodically and look for different methods? 

[no_zero369]

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@yuzuha wrote:

I agree, to a certain extent. There is a great benefit to being proactive-- I knew that there were likely to be at least some delays, so I made sure to get each and every package scanned when I dropped it off to make sure that I had proof it was mailed within my handling time (normally I just leave things on the counter if there is a line). I've still got three packages floating around out there, but I haven't heard a peep of complaint from the buyers because they can clearly see that it's in the mail stream and is just delayed. Should any of them contact me to ask where their package is, I will explain the postal delays and tell them I will file a "where's my package?" request for them.

Yes, there are delays. Yes, the delays are a pain in the *bleep*. But there are also things that we as sellers can do on our end to help head any problems off at the pass.

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@yuzuha 

Kudos on your approach and attitude!

I guess it is human nature to whine and complain and want someone else to fix it for you.  Looks like you are another vote for "doing for yourself!"  Glad that has been a success for you!

+1

[*smedley*]

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@no_zero369 wrote:

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@*smedley* wrote:

everything is the seller's fault...

got it...

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I think one is missing the larger picture. 

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and i think one fails to recognize sardonicism...

btw... *navel

[dbfolks166mt]

     I agree with your assessment of sellers ownership and responsibility  however, I would expect no less from eBay as the facilitator. They either own the shipping process or the don't. They are the ones posting the EDD to the buyer. If they are going to act like they own the shipping process, aka playing Amazon, then let them step up and take some responsibility. After all they are charging the sellers for the service they provide. 

     They did little to nothing to help the sellers through this situation and as a result I pulled my listings and will not post until the shipping situation clears up or eBay takes some appropriate steps to assume some of the responsibility for the shipping process they think they own but over which they have no control. 

[no_zero369]

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@va-8501 wrote:

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@powell-memorabilia wrote:

... just would love to see a return of personal accountability for actions and inactions.   

90% of the threads on the shipping delays are purely for deflection - not information gathering, not about how to better approach the situation, not admissions of what a seller could/should have done differently, not any lessons learned for next time.  If people don't want to understand that there are things they can do to mitigate issues ...  

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You say we should be talking about information gathering, a better approach, what could have been done better or differently to mitigate issues.  USPS and ebay aren't part of the equation?  With the $billions of revenues, assets, and systems USPS has it's all on us sellers? 

Actually it's simple.  Have you ever heard of root cause analysis?  The first step is identifying the problem.  This will lead you to corrective action by the responsible party.  USPS Late delivery is a symptom of the problem.  The problem is promising 2 to 3 day Priority Mail delivery during a period where the data (information gathering) clearly shows 2 to 3 day delivery is a bald face lie when packages are taking up to 3 weeks.

It's not a just a few misses.  If that were the case, the 'shipping-returns' forum wouldn't be this riddled with discussion about it, and you wouldn't have found the need to write your stupid dissertation on it, and ebay wouldn't have found the need to make some adjustment to their INR refund timing policy. 

When it's this blatant, yes, it's a bald face lie courtesy of USPS.  Their late deliveries started before Thanksgiving.   Yet all through this debacle they quoted 2 or 3 day delivery on their Priority labels, and on their website under 'Quick Tools' --> Calculate Postage. 

Information gathering?  Who has all the information?  USPS does. 

And so does ebay, they use it to penalize sellers for what USPS didn't do.

I was involved in an ISO-9001 certification.  The most important KPI (key performance indicator) is OTD (On Time Delivery).  At the heart of the certification is "Say What You Do, Do What You Say"

Truth will gain you trust.  If USPS says delivery in 2 to 3 days, then USPS should do it. 

If they can't, then they should be saying what they are able to do.  If it takes 2 weeks, so be it, 2 weeks is what you say!

We have responsible sellers on these forums pulling their hair out trying different strategies to force adjustments to the 2 to 3 day lies that USPS gives us.  I have read suggestions of increasing handling times, or  taking the "time out option, continue to sell" to extend delivery time.  But that just gets defeated when you ship early in an attempt to counteract the USPS lies of 2 to 3 days, which defaults.  I see suggestions to extend handling time and buy your label on a different platform.  Then don't upload the tracking number until well after you actually shipped the item to give yourself more time.  Basically telling ebay and the customer a lie to work around USPS dishonest delivery times. 

What makes you think that we sellers aren't following our shipments and keeping our buyers informed? 

Where do you get off implying that sellers here aren't proactively trying to take corrective action over a situation they don't control.  In the end, USPS sets the bald face lie delivery date, and ebay pulls it in knowing it's a bald face lie.  Don't try to tell me ebay doesn't know those delivery dates are a lie.  If they didn't know it they wouldn't have posted their 10 day extension policy.  

What are you saying, the seller has responsibility for fixing the lie perpetuated by USPS?  USPS and eBay aren't part of the equation?  You sound like my local Post Master screaming at me, as if she paid for the postage.  

As stated, the problem is completely unreliable and dishonest USPS expected delivery times which drives buyer expectations and eBay's INR refund time line. 

Corrective Action:  Based on the aggregate actual ship date/delivery date data, USPS should have  re-stated the delivery times to what is actually being experienced.  The only data I have is for my own shipments, all of which were late.  I could do a fairly accurate job of publishing delivery times for my next item, but ebay won't accept mine, they only accept the lie from USPS.

Responsible Party:  USPS and Ebay, they have the aggregate  data, they have the systems, all they have to do is publish realistic delivery times based on the data they have.  USPS sure doesn't seem to have a problem systematically raising their postage rates, why can't they adjust their delivery times?

So why didn't USPS and eBay do the right thing?  It would have cost USPS and ebay revenue.  A lot of purchases would not have been made if the honest realistic 10 to 20 day delivery time was quoted.  Further, USPS and eBay have no skin in this game.  Cost of Priority shipping is non-refundable for late or lost packages.  And ebay forces the seller to refund on INR cases.   

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I think it is pretty clear, at least to this chair, that scanning these Shipping & Returns threads for the last several weeks that a vast majority of sellers appear to be of the "ship it & forget it" mind set.  After all how many posts say something like "I have no control over the USPS."  So that is where anyone would get the impression that sellers aren't being proactive, aren't keeping their buyers informed.  Shoot most are not aware of the Missing Mail process or how it works. Most who have had to refund under INR cases aren't even aware of the Package Intercept Service.   There is much more to selling than listing & shipping and collecting the money and I think a crisis is a good time to step back, reevaluate one's style and make any adjustments.

I think if sellers did a root cause analysis of their processes they would certainly see the benefit to be proactive, keeping buyers informed of the delays and initiating the Missing Mail process for buyers.

Let me say this again. Sellers DO have some control over the "buying experience" and CAN (if they wish) manage buyer expectations as to delivery.  So one is welcome to shift the blame to the USPS as they are an easy fall guy or one can adapt their selling to manage in the crisis in a way that is to the seller's benefit.  I'd rather be proactive as I think it has a better return than finger pointing. er, at least in my view.  I guess everyone is free to disagree.  Just saying.✌️

[no_zero369 · Accepted solution]

@glasser 

I disagree with your point of view.  It appears as though you are saying eBay should or could have done something different? Well maybe the could have, but what could sellers have done differently to manage buyer's expectations about delivery times, in a proactive way that would have warded off many INR cases?

I think OP's point is that sellers could use this crisis as an excuse to look inward and outward and instead of hoping someone else helps them out, find creative solutions that work for them.  Some quit selling, some upped their customer service, others just sat back, hands off and took the INR hits.  Everyone has the right to chose which is best for them.

Maybe these boards are nothing more that a whining place to get frustrations out?  In the past if was sellers looking for solutions and ways to improve.  I think OP's point was to take a look at ways each of use can improve.

er, except for me and I have always been told that I am just perfect!  {humor intended}

[dbfolks166mt]

Only one comment here. The delivery dates from USPS  are estimates only and not a lie. USPS only has guaranteed money back delivery for express shipping if you wish to pay for it. In case you are not aware both FedEx and UPS suspended their money back guarantee on express shipping until further notice. To the best of my knowledge they have not restored that guarantee as of yet.