Potential Return Fraud?

[nguyenbbboy]

So I recently sold an Apple watch valued at about $300, brand new.

A buyer did "buy it now" and quickly paid for it. Thought it was weird that they'd pay that full amount when competitor sites would have been cheaper, but whatever. Packaged and sent it.

Yesterday, they filed a claim saying they purchased it for their brother but the package was empty. 

Is there anything I can do about that? I KNOW I put the watch in there. But there's no proof they need to offer. It seems so one sided.

The buyer's account was made less than 2 weeks ago. It's fresh with only 5 feedback. And yet ebay still gives them permission to submit a claim like this when it's full of red flags? Am I just going to be down my watch, the money that was paid, and the shipping I paid? (I put free shipping on all my sales so the buyer doesn't have to pay it, out of goodwill)

I'm reading so many comments about how ebay favors buyers.

[monster-deals]

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@teltuooutlet wrote:

Instead you should just tell the seller to give in and not bother?

You can be cynical about it, I won't be.

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On ebay, yes, don't bother. They will lose. It isn't cynical at all, this is how ebay works.

There is zero point wasting time arguing on the phone to get the same outcome that is already explained in this thread.

There are plenty of other things they can do off ebay that would not be described as "giving in". I suggest they follow the list of things you can do you can find in many other threads just like this one.

[threshold.sales.group]

IIRC, you can brick the watch by going through the steps with Apple for dealing with stolen items. You should still have all the original purchase receipts & etc.. Do that asap. 

[no_zero369]

@nguyenbbboy 

Here is a post I captured some time ago.  This is about all you can do upfront to try to dissuade this kind of scam.  Try that and if it doesn't work, then accept the return and then file the necessary reports to get eBay to issue you a refund.  Add buyer to BBL and make sure to file a separate report on the buyer - report buyer.

[vintagecraze50]

Apple products are one of the most highly scammed items on this website. There are posts that come up quite frequently here about this. So, do as this other poster noted by telling the buyer that you will start a postal investigation of what’s happened to your item. Perhaps they will think twice about trying to steal it from you and in the future refrain from selling these types of items here, they are high risk.

[vintagecraze50]

Oh, and message to Ebay Inc, even though they may not read or care. Start an authentication program for these Apple products if you want sellers who have no experience selling this stuff on here, to stop this nonsense.

[nguyenbbboy]

Unfortunately would not work in this case because I technically did not buy the watch, it was given to me through a giveaway. One of those "First 100 people who show up receive x product as a gift!" types of giveaway. (Though from many other items I've been given, they have all been legitimate, so I have no doubts on authenticity.)

I know that sounds incredibly suspicious, but that's the case here. 

As some of the other posters have mentioned, I will do a postal investigation as well as a police report once I receive the package. The shipping label has already been sent to the buyer. I assume that if it is never sent back, I automatically win the case?

As a side note, thank you all for being so helpful. Ebaying is not something I do frequently, so I'm really naive/unaware on a lot of aspects regarding the site.

[monster-deals]

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@nguyenbbboy wrote:

I assume that if it is never sent back, I automatically win the case?

As a side note, thank you all for being so helpful. Ebaying is not something I do frequently, so I'm really naive/unaware on a lot of aspects regarding the site.

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Keep your eye on the time line because yes, if they don't ship "it" back within X days you can call and have it closed.

Ebay is a hellscape that chews up noobs. It isn't your fault, it is ebay's buyer centric policy that did this to you.

[ra_201044]

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@teltuooutlet wrote:

A while ago I had someone tell me that the package they received from me was empty. Which I KNOW was not true since I pack everything myself. Ebay was going to side with the buyer but I put up a stink. I showed them the weight, stated over and over that there is NO possible way I would have created a label for an item of that weight and NOT have the item in the package. They saw my proof and rationale and they decided to refund the buyer themselves, no cost to me. 

Scammers are going to scam. You just have to stick with your argument so Ebay does not take the refund from you. Especially if you have not had complaints of this kind in the past.

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Maybe you WOULDN'T create a label without the item in the box for the weight, but you certainly COULD if you felt like it.

They didn't see your proof, either this was years ago or they just gave you a courtesy refund.

[ra_201044]

Thought it was weird that they'd pay that full amount when competitor sites would have been cheaper, but whatever.

Now you know why.

[outdatedrecreated]

NEVER SELL ANYTHING YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO BE SCAMMED OUT OF! 

Whether eBay wants to admit it or not, selling items like that is not safe on eBay, especially for inexperienced sellers. You have lost your watch and your money. Your only hope is to file an IC3 report online and once that is done, contact eBay and don't take no for an answer. 

[nguyenbbboy]

For those that are following this thread, I have an exciting update.

The case was closed in my favor, meaning that after all of the headaches, I(the seller) get to keep the money. 

What I did:

• Accept the refund and pay for a label (but not pay the full refund yet)
• Contact customer service about the buyer, explaining what happened, my suspicions about the buyer's relatively new account age, etc.
• Contact the buyer in a civil manner and explain that I am accepting the return, they just have to send back the package
• Wait
  
  And it ended up working out. Didn't have to contact the police or postal service (though I would have been willing to do so if needed.

So for those that are looking in here for solutions, know that it's possible. I still think there's probably a lot more cases of fraudulent buyers winning over the sellers, but it's not completely doomed.

[married_to_my_hero]

How did you contact customer service? I have a buyer's remorse going no. Buyer get item Wednesday, positive feedback Thursday. Friday contacts me requesting an exchange because found a different item I sell they want more, which I reply no exchanges. Now all of a sudden Saturday it's defective demanding a refund, opening a fraud "defective" refund, and threatening me that if I don't issue a refund today they will go to eBay. I called customer service but the guy was a helpful as my cat in this situation, basically saying to bend over. The $25 shipped item will not cost me over $35 to refund.

[no_zero369]

@married_to_my_hero 

I hear you, this all is frustrating.  But one thing I had to learn the hard way when selling here is that returns are part of retail selling.  I use to have a 'no returns' policy until I got run over by eBay's Money Back Guarantee.

Unfortunately buyers these days Google or read the MBG and understand how it works.  So when a buyer requests a return or refund the best response is:

Dear Buyer,  Sorry you are not happy with the widget.  Please return it for a full refund. - Seller

Point is that when a return happens a seller is going to lose money.  I had to learn that how much money I lost depended on the actions I took or didn't take.

So in this case perhaps one could have gotten the buyer to pay return shipping cost and lower the loss that way.  By refusing that, buyer just (rightly or wrongly) filed a NAD case and then the seller is REQUIRED to refund the buyer regardless of a return.  So if a seller wants the item back, seller pays return shipping.

Hey, I had to learn about returns the hard way, I fought NAD cases and eBay refunded the buyer without requiring a return,  that was a MAXIMUM LOSS - lost item and the money. Plus got an account defect for an unresolved case.

So what I had to swallow was that returns were part of retail selling.  As such they are a "business" risk.  If I had a B&M store I would have fire & theft insurance.  Now I have a Cookie Jar Insurance Fund that I set aside to pay for returns when they 'happen.'  (5% tax on each sale) Also, I no longer assume any money from a sale is mine to spend or keep until the MBG has expired (30-days past scanned delivered).  Taking away the financial shock sure helped me sleep at night.  Also learned a few techniques to try to avoid scams and what to do to be made whole when a scam happens.

So a few things to consider and perhaps something in what I do can help you?