eBay

lihar_5267 · ‎12-30-2020

I bought some chandeliers and the seller accepted returns. When I wanted to return them the seller refused the return, the case was won in my favour.

I ended up being refunded and keeping the items. Seller issued a civil claims against me and today we have had mediation which has failed.

The mediator told me that I can't legally keep the goods even though I was told I could do so via eBay.

Seller is now taking me to a civil courts as he wants compensation.

He was offered the goods back today but refused them.

I could well get a county court judgement against me for going acting on eBays advice I'm told that there advice is unlawful and wrong help!!!

evry1nositswindy · ‎12-30-2020

OP is in the UK.

evry1nositswindy • seller since 2013
Volunteer Community Mentor

elmgrovetvhospital · ‎12-30-2020

Thank you! God save the Queen.....and not the buyer!

policequilts · ‎12-30-2020

From Etsy forums, it looks like the UK laws lets them return items for any reason and I think it's up to a year.

I take it that the seller has to issue a return label (having the same weight as shipped out).
I would have the package returned and take it to the post office before opening it.
I would have make sure you have camera to document :
1 - have the post office weigh the package (take pictures of weight).

2 - pictures before opening the package

3 - pictures opening the package and so documenting everything.

4 - if there is trash, have the post office person to write this information.

5 - I would file a police report in your area, find out what to file in the UK, file with the IC3.gov of fraud.

Good luck

I got stuck with a female who got a refund and kept the clothing.
I got a free website and blogged, using her name and city/state.
I wrote what happened and the document I had that she got both without returning items and wearing them.

About a year later, I got a message from this person and she did say that she wanted the items and that she will pay for them now. I asked why the change : She was looking for a job and an employer saw my blog.
When I received payment, I changed the blog that the items have been paid for and in 6 months this post will be deleted. (I wanted google to index the resolution before deleting it).

martin2001 · ‎12-30-2020

@lihar_5267 wrote:
I bought some chandeliers and the seller accepted returns. When I wanted to return them the seller refused the return, the case was won in my favour.
I ended up being refunded and keeping the items. Seller issued a civil claims against me and today we have had mediation which has failed.
The mediator told me that I can't legally keep the goods even though I was told I could do so via eBay.
Seller is now taking me to a civil courts as he wants compensation.
He was offered the goods back today but refused them.
I could well get a county court judgement against me for going acting on eBays advice I'm told that there advice is unlawful and wrong help!!!

It is not hopeless. As you indicated, the seller refused the return violating his own policy and the policy of the site (ebay) they have been using to sell their ware.

Do you have a written statement by the seller where he refused to accept the return in violation of his own policy? So the question at the trial (if it comes to it) is: how you are supposed to return the item when the seller refuses to accept it. It clearly means that the seller does not want it.

Moreover, point out the fact that you also tried to return the item during mediation and the seller refused again, meaning they do not want it, they are dishonest and fishing to milk you.

Also read the law. I understand that you are in UK. Fort example, here is an excerpt:

Online, mail and phone order sales

Online, mail and telephone order customers have the right to cancel their order for a limited time even if the goods are not faulty. Sales of this kind are known as ‘distance selling’.

You [the seller] must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.

You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason.

Further (actually printed in bold letter on the site):

Penalties for displaying notices

It’s illegal to display any notice that deliberately misleads consumers or deceives them about their rights, for example a sign that says you do not accept returns or offer refunds.

You have a winning case. The seller deliberately misleads customers by displaying on their site that they accept return, to get more favorable treatment by ebay, and when they are obliged to follow up, they are refusing to comply.

I would write a letter/message summarizing how they violate the law and sent them that letter via ebay messaging. Indicate to them, that they are in violation of the UK distant selling policies, and that you are still willing to return in spite of their violation of the UK law. Ask them to withdraw the case and indicate that they will most likely lose because of their violation of the UK law.

Here is the link, there are additional links on that page. Study and learn, that's how you win.

https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds

netwizz760 · ‎12-30-2020

None of this is legal advice nor any indicators of outcome disposition nor merits of the case or even what what was sold. I have not looked even 5 minutes into what you said not at the item sold or it’s terms.

Based on that I have some very general things to add that are true of everything sold on eBay and general advice.

First if it is. $0.99 item or a $1,000 item, eBay terms always apply to the use of eBay. To the extent they apply, different circuits/districts case-law etc. it gets complicated. I have NOT researched, and if I did, I did not even check where you live....

All that said, it my opinion most everywhere,

eBay has every right to be the sole arbiter of money back guarantee buyer/seller disputes. Specifically, the buyer AND seller both agreed to eBay’s terms of services, which lets eBay offer protection for the platform to function. It lets eBay render decisions.

This is a small quote from eBay’s terms:

”You and eBay agree that any claim or dispute at law or equity that has arisen, or may arise, between you and eBay (or any related third parties) that relates in any way to or arises out of this or previous versions of this User Agreement, your use of or access to the Services, the actions of eBay or its agents, or any products or services sold or purchased through the Services, will be resolved in accordance with the provisions set forth in this Legal Disputes Section.”

additionally

”Most eBay sales go smoothly, but if there's a problem with a purchase, the eBay Money Back Guarantee helps buyers and sellers communicate and resolve issues. You agree to comply with the policy and permit us to make a final decision on any eBay Money Back Guarantee case.”

That is just for starters. Basically, by selling, the seller already waived the right to any court making a final decision on giving money back as part of a buyer-protection Money Back Guarantee. Moreover, you claim you tried to make a return which was refused... This could possibly be looked on as favorable to you that if your performance required you return it and the other party interfered preventing the return, I would thank that would be an affirmative defense at least unless the item didn’t accept returns, and which types of returns they cannot refuse (or can they)???

We are not here to make determinations... but you can find many of the terms here that both the seller and buyer agree to using eBay:

You can read the terms I read here:

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/user-agreement?id=4259#17

***

The best advice is that legal advice is not given in this forum: for those types of matters, you are encouraged to find a qualified Attourney for any legal matter to represent you or at least advise you depending upon venue. For example some small claims venues might have rules against either party using an Attourney, but that would be for an Attourney to advise you... Moreover, I should point out that if you are actually served a lawsuit, you or your attorney really will want to answer the complaint in a timely manner to prevent serious ramifications such as a default judgement... I have no idea how long you have to answer only that if an answer is due in 30 days, you would not want to start lawyer shopping day 28.

If you are from a different country, the entire process may be completely different.

Hope that helps.

Personally, if it were me and it had a problem I would document it and return it never trying to keep the item and the money if that is even what happened here. I don’t know.

What I do know is it is probably not with the stress for either party to go legal over a chandelier.

stephenmorgan · ‎12-30-2020

"You agree to comply with the policy and permit us to make a final decision on any eBay Money Back Guarantee case.”

The mediator told me that I can't legally keep the goods.

Is mediator the same as a Arbitrator?

After eBay's decision there is a right to Arbitration, if one chooses. The Mediator obviously decided in the sellers favor. What exactly was the Mediator's decision? If you were told to pay for the item then the seller does not have accept the item back.

Taking you to Court for not obeying the Mediator's decision is the next logical step. Unless there is proof the Mediator did something wrong I doubt the Court will overrule the Legally Binding Decision of the Mediator.

It is possible you could have your own Arbitration against eBay?

B. Agreement to Arbitrate

You and eBay each agree that any and all disputes or claims that have arisen, or may arise, between you and eBay (or any related third parties) that relate in any way to or arise out of this or previous versions of the User Agreement, your use of or access to our Services, the actions of eBay or its agents, or any products or services sold, offered, or purchased through our Services shall be resolved exclusively through final and binding arbitration, rather than in court. Alternatively, you may assert your claims in small claims court, if your claims qualify and so long as the matter remains in such court and advances only on an individual (non-class, non-representative) basis. The Federal Arbitration Act governs the interpretation and enforcement of this Agreement to Arbitrate.

xpertcarpet74 · ‎12-30-2020

So you thought you could get a refund and keep the item? Where I’m from they call that STEALING

lamber9347 · ‎12-30-2020

@lihar_5267 wrote:
I bought some chandeliers and the seller accepted returns. When I wanted to return them the seller refused the return, the case was won in my favour.
I ended up being refunded and keeping the items. Seller issued a civil claims against me and today we have had mediation which has failed.
The mediator told me that I can't legally keep the goods even though I was told I could do so via eBay.
Seller is now taking me to a civil courts as he wants compensation.
He was offered the goods back today but refused them.
I could well get a county court judgement against me for going acting on eBays advice I'm told that there advice is unlawful and wrong help!!!

There has to be more to this story than what you are choosing to disclose here. You are obviously only looking for sympathy and can see none will be given to you here. The only reason I am bothering to post is to add my voice that I have also blocked you and you should be ashamed of yourself with the types of FB you leave for others. These are ordinary people who are selling items from their household and you have the audacity to write such horrible things back to them on a public forum. Shame on you....

stephenmorgan · ‎12-30-2020

Can someone explain why my post deleted? I only spoke of the Arbitration Process. Is that a violation to inform someone they can have a Arbitration Hearing if they disagree with eBay's decision?

*smedley* · ‎12-30-2020

@no_zero369 wrote:
Another example of someone who will end up on numerous BBL's.

one of the perks of this forum is pro-active BBL adding...

stephenmorgan · ‎12-30-2020

Ok, so now that I asked why my post was deleted it has been reinstated.

wesk_36 · ‎12-30-2020

@stephenmorgan wrote:
Can someone explain why my post deleted? I only spoke of the Arbitration Process. Is that a violation to inform someone they can have a Arbitration Hearing if they disagree with eBay's decision?

I see it 3 posts above.

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