Free Returns

[plumbingspecials]

I had a conversation with an eBay rep yesterday who called me to tell me (once again) about the free returns program, and how this wonderful program can boost sales by 15 percent, according to some data that was most likely manipulated to get people to believe that sales = profits.

I feel really bad because by the end of the conversation, she was trembling, perhaps even in tears, and that was certainly not my intention. The poor girl was just doing the job she was hired to do, reading a script that she was told to read, and to try to convince Top Rated Sellers that it's okay to be extorted by eBay. I hope she did not take my feedback about eBay personally, but I really think it was her first day. I explained to her that this move by eBay is opening a whole new channel for thieves. Now they can search by "free returns" so they can target sellers who offer this program. Thieves know they can get items for free or for at least 50% off. There is no way a seller can make a profit with this strategy. There is no honor among thieves, and if eBay truly believes members are always honest, they are sadly optimistic. As it is now, most returns are FALSE SNAD cases (in other words, the buyer LIES to avoid shipping and restocking fees), so let's just make it easier for them by removing the step where they have to lie to return something for free (yep, that will make them honest!). The rep excitedly tells me that if the item is returned in any other condition than we sent it, we are allowed to keep 50% of the sale and refund only 50% instead of having to refund the full transaction. After four reports of buyers misuing the free returns system, eBay will give them warning. So they get to rip off at least FOUR sellers before eBay shuts them down.  (Yep, again that's keeping them honest!)

I reiterated to the rep that eBay is cheating us out of our TRS benefits by forcing us to take losses on our sales. If we do not conform to this ridiculously unprofitable policy, we do not get our benefits on those listings. So, If I sell an item for $1000, the buyer requests a return and sends back a box of rocks, I get to keep 50% of the sale IF I CAN PROVE that I sent out the correct item. I do not get a discount on my final value fees because it's only a partial refund, but hey, at least eBay put our TRS badge on that item.

So to put this in perspective:

I have a unit that I paid 700 for (because I am adistributor).

I sell the unit for $1000. I pay shipping $25. Buyer requests return, I pay another 25 plus call tagf fee of 16, so it costs 41 to bring it back. I receive a box of rocks, the buyer keeps the unit, and I get to keep half of the refund because the buyer didn't send back the same unit.  Here's what it looks like:

1000-100 (fvf)=900

900-25 (shipping)=875

875-700(cost of unit)=175

At this point I made a profit of 175 (sounds good, right?)

Oh but wait. The buyer requests a return (no reason is needed).

175 (what I initially made) - 41 (return shipping and call tag)=134

Buyer ships back box of rocks instead of a unit that I can re-sell.

134-500(partial refund for scam buyer)= -366

This transaction would cost ME $366 to receive something back other than what i sold.. Not sure how eBay expects people to sell here if we are not profitting or at least breaking even. 

I suppose the rep who called me NEVER SOLD A THING ON eBay! Because not one person who ever has, would agree that this is a "good" program for sellers. I think she realized that after I schooled her.

I still feel really bad though, because she honestly thought she was promoting a good program. 

[partsgalore1]

In a pigs eye.... LMAO

[repairpc]

We sell a bunch of electronics, computer/laptop/tablet parts & pieces, tv parts & pieces, new, used, parts & repair.  We get dozens of returns each month of people buying the wrong part for thier tv, computer, laptop or whatever.  A simple forced communication would fix the problem.  "I have a tv that doesn't turn on... how do i fix it?"  (Instead of buying the mainboard... maybe buy the board that actually gives the unit power... duh... the power board).    To stay a top rated seller, I am now forced to pay for the shipping to the buyer, and if it doesn't fix his tv since he bought the wrong part... now I also have to pay to get my item back.  I loose the cost of shipping twice, and Ebay still keeps their fees on my shipping costs as well.  How is this smart business?  Thank goodness there are other places to sell... Newegg has SKYROCKETED since the talk of this.  The 15% increase that Ebay states is total **bleep**.  My Newegg sales have gone up almost 3x since the threat of this, and I will assume now that this policy is live my sales will go up even more!  Ebay is moving away from what made it sucessful in the first place.  You are lucky in that you sell unique rocks that appear to be something that no-one else has the identical product.  For the majority of sellers on ebay you have to meet these 3 requirements to even get a sale:

1) Have the best description & title

2) Have the best looking Picture

3) Have the lowest price

The majority of our sales are since we have the item lower than any one else... our majority of customers don't give a **bleep** about us, our feedback, our return policy or that we have been on Ebay since it started... they just want it cheapest listed and receive it in the shortest amount of time possible.  This new policy now adds a new thing for buyers to sort our sellers... I only want the cheapest I can get the item from whoever sells it that offers free returns.  So that If I screw up the item, don't like the color of the item, or just accidently bought the wrong part... not my problem any more.

[repairpc]

We have been selling on Ebay now since 1998.  I have sold my fair share and have done quite well despite the different changes that Ebay has forced upon us over the years.  We have offered the 30-day returns since it was forced on us so that we could remain a TRS+ seller, but the "Free Returns" is a no-go for us.  We currently have 2400 items listed, and have noticed that over 90% of our sales are from price alone.  Not from offering the best service, the fastest shipping, the clearest descriptions or best pictures... no, no, no... just price.  Our largest problem has been the "Not as Described" abuse that Ebay has allowed, and I belive that the "Free Returns" is to get rid of this.  Over 80% (YES 80%) of our "Not as Described" returns have been **bleep** from our buyers just so that we have to pay return shipping.  We have even had cases where the customer has opened a "Not as Described" return, we approve it (as we must) and then they send us a message stating something like "I'm sorry that I bought the wrong part, could you help me get the right part?"  In cases like this, Ebay has half stepped in and has covered the return shipping, but we are still out the original shipping.  We mainly sell electronic parts & pieces from laptops, computers, servers, TV's, etc.  The communication between the buyer and seller has all but dissolved and this is a way to put a much larger gap between the buyer and seller.  It appears to me that Ebay want's to be the seller... we are nothing more than a product provider at this point.  Since we no-longer will receive the benifits of TRS+, we have decided to completly remove returns from the table.  I will re-posted if our sales decrese from this move any more than before...

I doubt they will as most people really don't give a $H!+ about return policies or free returns, they only care of how fast they get the item and for how cheap!  Even when I buy parts on Ebay for items that are in for repair, I look at price alone... always sort from cheapest to highest.  Buying the lowest item that gets to me fastest.

[partsgalore1]

I totally agree... we can't even get buyers to read our item descriptions... who actually thinks they're going to read return policies before buying an item. I even had "no returns" on a bunch of my listings and didn't notice any change in sales! "Buyers just want the cheapest item in the shortest amount of time"

[auctionsrva]

No question Ebay will see a drop in SNAD returns with the new policy.  I almost choked laughing when part of their rationale for the policy included "we believe this will result in a significant reduction in SNAD returns" (may not be their exact words).  One doesn't need a crystal ball to see that! 

[gmas7readers]

Thank you Mr_Lincoln for responding.  One needs to have free 30 day returns to retain the Top Rated badge on listings and the 10% discount on fees.   Just today, eBay has messed up a transaction between a buyer and me, as the seller. My buyer and I worked out a return (she read the books and didn't like them!)(I'm already upset that this was fine with the eBay rep that I talked to!!!) She shipped the books back and when I receive them, I will refund her Paypal account for the amount she paid + the return shipping.....I had shipped the books with free shipping to her.  Now, this morning, eBay sends a label to her for free return and debits my Paypal account.  I am a calm person, but I am really getting fed up with eBay interfering with the good raport I have with my buyers!!! NO returns on books seems to only make sense to me!

[partsgalore1]

I would at least have a "buyer pays return shipping" ... perhaps you could also test "no returns" ... The profit on books is so small that you cannot afford to lose shipping costs! My policy is simple... the person at fault, pays! I make my share of mistakes and even if my mistake was only minimally responsible for the return, I pay all shipping costs. I will continue to do all I can to illuminate loses due to buyers mistakes / failure to read descriptions / changed mind, etc....

[mr_lincoln]

@darsdandydeals

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@darsdandydeals wrote:

And what kind of business are sellers/eBay gonna lose if and when we have to start charging tax on every purchase? 

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If and when that happens ALL online sales venues will charge tax but I suspect the venues will process them and pass them through to the appropriate states.  Just my guess on the matter.

[cordell1]

Free shipping and free returns equal mass returns. I don't need the 10% discount that bad as I lose more in returns than I gain in discount. No free anything for me. If seller pays shipping odds are they will not be returning. I can give you discount on item but no free shipping!

[cordell1]

Not opting in as free returns/free shipping means I lose money. If you ship within one day time frame you get higher exposed in the listings because of shipping fast. That I have seen to be true so that is the plus of fast turn around. I'll give discount on item but buyer will pay shipping as I'm not going to lose money on returns which do increase with free shipping.

[mysticallady]

They also count the returns against us. I am having way more returns since adding "Free Returns" because people don't read the description. So no matter what we do jumping through ALL THEIR HOOPS, we can't win here. They are making sure of that. 

[sidemouse]

I get that a lot as well, since I sell parts for small engines (like hand tools for the yard such as chainsaws and trimmers and such) is this nagging feeling that I'm paying return shipping only because of some kind of incompetence somewhere upstream or downstream that's not my fault but... I have found one thing that helps is to make youtube videos on how to install it and maybe even how to troubleshoot (don't forget to link your ebay auction in the video description) and then you can make a QR code out of the youtube link and PRINT that QR code on paper (if you're good you can print a dozen or more on a single sheet and cut them out) and include those little square pieces of paper with the QR code (that when scanned with a smart phone will take the buyer to your youtube video) with each order.

Now that folks, is high tech redneck.

It not only reduces returns because we're actually trying to help a buyer out but also because (as was just pointed out) when a buyer realizes how much you've done and how high tech you are, they are (I think) somewhat less likely to jump the gun with that "return for refund" easy peasy solution... The buyer might in this instance give it one more try before returning it, and granted it will not stop all returns but I DO believe it helps.

[sidemouse]

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@auctionsrva wrote:

No question Ebay will see a drop in SNAD returns with the new policy.  I almost choked laughing when part of their rationale for the policy included "we believe this will result in a significant reduction in SNAD returns" (may not be their exact words).  One doesn't need a crystal ball to see that! 

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I don't think it's going to reduce it because buyers are still being asked to pick a reason and I am SURE snad/doesn't work/defective are still in the list of reasons the buyer can pick, much in the same way a buyer can still file an INR case on an auction they never paid for...

I'd like to believe like you do, but don't forget who we're dealing with here.

Oh, ebay.

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@mysticallady wrote:

They also count the returns against us. I am having way more returns since adding "Free Returns" because people don't read the description. So no matter what we do jumping through ALL THEIR HOOPS, we can't win here. They are making sure of that. 

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Yap, see what I'm thinking right there.

As for the 1% discount (which is what it really comes out to be), they can keep it.

Yes there might be a loss in search engine ranking as well but I have learned it doesn't always pay to have top-of-page results... Sometimes (not always but certainly sometimes) it helps weed out the cantankerous buyers by not being the first result, takes longer to get the sales but I have less returns per 100 (which is how I measure it, number of returns per 100 sales).

The picky and (mostly) uneducated buyers are always the ones coming my way when I've got a top of the list result, that's when we get the stuff about... Oh, it's too long to type it all out but let me say I've got stories I can tell LOL

[2015_araia]

No ,as a buyer free returns is very important ,but I do understand how the cost affects sellers !maybe if EBay would charge a small surcharge of 1% or so I order for the customer to have the option of free return on item ,then there would be a fund to cover free returns because of of all the buyers paying the 1% only a very small fraction would return the item .just my take

[partsgalore1]

Logically I agree 100%... however, I have been running free returns for several weeks on most of my items (over 1000). I have only had a few returns (no more than usual) and I have discounted them by up to 50% to prevent shipping losses. So far, no one has asked eBay to step in. Bottom line, free returns have been a net positive for me. I will say, I have not noticed any additional sales during this period...but it's impossible to know what my sales would have been if I didn't have free returns?? So far I plan to stick with free returns....