Free Returns

[plumbingspecials]

I had a conversation with an eBay rep yesterday who called me to tell me (once again) about the free returns program, and how this wonderful program can boost sales by 15 percent, according to some data that was most likely manipulated to get people to believe that sales = profits.

I feel really bad because by the end of the conversation, she was trembling, perhaps even in tears, and that was certainly not my intention. The poor girl was just doing the job she was hired to do, reading a script that she was told to read, and to try to convince Top Rated Sellers that it's okay to be extorted by eBay. I hope she did not take my feedback about eBay personally, but I really think it was her first day. I explained to her that this move by eBay is opening a whole new channel for thieves. Now they can search by "free returns" so they can target sellers who offer this program. Thieves know they can get items for free or for at least 50% off. There is no way a seller can make a profit with this strategy. There is no honor among thieves, and if eBay truly believes members are always honest, they are sadly optimistic. As it is now, most returns are FALSE SNAD cases (in other words, the buyer LIES to avoid shipping and restocking fees), so let's just make it easier for them by removing the step where they have to lie to return something for free (yep, that will make them honest!). The rep excitedly tells me that if the item is returned in any other condition than we sent it, we are allowed to keep 50% of the sale and refund only 50% instead of having to refund the full transaction. After four reports of buyers misuing the free returns system, eBay will give them warning. So they get to rip off at least FOUR sellers before eBay shuts them down.  (Yep, again that's keeping them honest!)

I reiterated to the rep that eBay is cheating us out of our TRS benefits by forcing us to take losses on our sales. If we do not conform to this ridiculously unprofitable policy, we do not get our benefits on those listings. So, If I sell an item for $1000, the buyer requests a return and sends back a box of rocks, I get to keep 50% of the sale IF I CAN PROVE that I sent out the correct item. I do not get a discount on my final value fees because it's only a partial refund, but hey, at least eBay put our TRS badge on that item.

So to put this in perspective:

I have a unit that I paid 700 for (because I am adistributor).

I sell the unit for $1000. I pay shipping $25. Buyer requests return, I pay another 25 plus call tagf fee of 16, so it costs 41 to bring it back. I receive a box of rocks, the buyer keeps the unit, and I get to keep half of the refund because the buyer didn't send back the same unit.  Here's what it looks like:

1000-100 (fvf)=900

900-25 (shipping)=875

875-700(cost of unit)=175

At this point I made a profit of 175 (sounds good, right?)

Oh but wait. The buyer requests a return (no reason is needed).

175 (what I initially made) - 41 (return shipping and call tag)=134

Buyer ships back box of rocks instead of a unit that I can re-sell.

134-500(partial refund for scam buyer)= -366

This transaction would cost ME $366 to receive something back other than what i sold.. Not sure how eBay expects people to sell here if we are not profitting or at least breaking even. 

I suppose the rep who called me NEVER SOLD A THING ON eBay! Because not one person who ever has, would agree that this is a "good" program for sellers. I think she realized that after I schooled her.

I still feel really bad though, because she honestly thought she was promoting a good program. 

[carlmarxx]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

@orangehound  Nice post ... rather to the point I might add.  About 100 years ago Napoleon Hill wrote Think and Grow Rich ... prior to that there was no real self help book for Professionals (like sales people and others) on self notivation and leadership.   His work became THE basis for all the other self help books like the 7 Minute Manager (approx title, sorry if I got it wrong) and others because he got it right and many who followed were just copy cats trying to make money by saying the same thing with a different cover.  Anyway, he interviewed some of the great manufacturing leaders of his day, Andrew Carnegie, Henry Ford, etc.  The book is all about positive thinking and motivation.  Good leaders LEAD people by means other then threats, coercion, manipulation, etc.  Good leaders get people to WANT to follow them and do not have to employ such tactics as carrot dangling, privilege removal, implied inuendo, valed threats, etc.  Good leaders are known by the good and complimentary things people say about them. 

In the world of online sales, which is really a dynamic and ever changing sales environment it is important to be the leader so the competition has to follow.  There are parts of eBay that I think still lead other venues and that would be world of antique, vintage, collectible and used items.  Selling new products is a different animal altogether and eBay just flat out is not the leader and is struggling to follow and keep up.  

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Etsy doesn't intervene with their sellers return policy's  ,Unless   there is high need for the them to step in  by  the Party's involved with the transaction  request the help .  from what  I have  been told that both sellers and buyers  are treated with fair protections .   This is  what ebay should be doing. 

[sheilad2090]

yes and the guy acted like it was no big deal it is not worth the hassel i did it when it first came out a year ago Trust me I regreted it with in about 2 weeks and there was no button to set your listings back 3 days it took me to fix them back NO Way 

[plumbingspecials]

We have a joke around my office:
#WANA
(We Are Not Amaz....)

[mr_lincoln]

@carlmarxx

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@carlmarxx wrote:

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

@carlmarxx  I thought that saying the names of other sales venues was a Bozo No No?  Or discussing them and how they operate, etc.?

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You can say them as long as  you don't tell folks  to go buy  on them.   .  

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Ahhhh, what a relief ...

[mr_lincoln]

@carlmarxx wrote: Etsy doesn't intervene with their sellers' return policy's, unless  there is high need for them to step in  by  the Party's involved with the transaction who  requests the help .  from what  I have  been told that both sellers and buyers  are treated with fair protections .   This is  what ebay should be doing. 

________________________________________________________________

That makes perfectly good sense.  I suspect though that Etsy's transaction volume is significantly lower then eBay's ... Over 190 million IDs for both Selling and Buying on eBay.

[carlmarxx]

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@plumbingspecials wrote:
We have a joke around my office:
#WANA
(We Are Not Amaz....)

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I love it!   LOL!

[carlmarxx]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

@carlmarxx wrote: Etsy doesn't intervene with their sellers' return policy's, unless  there is high need for them to step in  by  the Party's involved with the transaction who  requests the help .  from what  I have  been told that both sellers and buyers  are treated with fair protections .   This is  what ebay should be doing. 

________________________________________________________________

That makes perfectly good sense.  I suspect though that Etsy's transaction volume is significantly lower then eBay's ... Over 190 million IDs for both Selling and Buying on eBay.

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I agree .   they  sellers that make hand made and  custom made goods  that can't be refunded or return ,So they do follow rules  on it from  Federal and state  consumer  merchant buyer policy.    Ebay  has had  in the buyer and seller UA  same policy  of  No  refunds and returns   for hand made and custom made goods  for years . It may take hours to find it  .  Paypal does have the No refund  and no returns  on  hand made and custom made goods..   Ebays MBG policy  has no place on those  items , Other then  buyer protection  for  INR  for no proof of delivery  and for lost or damage during transit .  

[calistas_closet33]

I got a survey today about the seller update.. do you think their questions are rhetorical when asking for suggestions on improvements? 🤔🤣

[mr_lincoln]

@calistas_closet33

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@calistas_closet33 wrote:
I got a survey today about the seller update.. do you think their questions are rhetorical when asking for suggestions on improvements? 🤔🤣

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You must be special ... I didn't get that one ...

[mr_lincoln]

@auctionsrva  The test has begun ... 65% on one ID and 53% on another ID are now Free Returns.  The clock is ticking ...

[auctionsrva]

I haven't updated anything yet, have to keep up with my day job too.

[mr_lincoln]

@auctionsrva  I work out of the house so its easier

[designforyou]

"I am going to give free returns an honest try..but only on small items with low shipping cost. If it becomes a problem I am seriously considering going to "no returns" on all my items! Then I can accept returns on my terms. I'll simply place my simple and fair return policy in my item description."

In reality no returns and your simple and fair policy will make no difference to the buyer that wants a refund or to ebay who will give it to them no matter what you offer or what you want to do on your terms.

It only makes sense in your rational mind, which unfortunately, is of no impact to EBAY's policy of giving away your money and your items.

[xchains]

repost from another board:

I have noticed a few sellers on the board here upset with the latest requirements of the vague worded policy: FREE RETURNS.  For the sellers unaware- eBay has a new requirement 6/1/2018 for top rated PLUS sellers to accept all returns no matter the reason and pay the return shipping.   Losing the PLUS status means no 10% refund of final value fees and NO promotion from ebay in best match search. 

I have been selling on ebay now for 20 years and have sold over 500,000 items.  My items are new better quality real gold plated jewelers brass fashion jewelry shipped free for under $10.  Returns are thrown away.  I sell new items only.  My items attract a lot of impulse buyers and also a younger market that often does not know their own size.   I am 61 with no retirement and have invested every penny in stocking my items.  I am the seller that has annoyed other sellers by always happily complying with new policies.  I have, until now, always promoted the new policies because it was my feeling that eBay has a lot broader view.  They get groups of smart people to research in great depth every aspect of a policy before they decide to implement it.  And the purpose to to be competitive in a huge market.  The main competitor being Amazon.  Yes, the end goal of making sure customers come back to ebay is most important for all of us.  Unfortunately though, it appears that the newest policy puts too much favor on the buyers and unfairly damages sellers.  I guess my complaint here is that it seems that in bending so far over for buyers we are going to topple a lot of the better sellers.

 A few categories have luckily been excluded from the new requirement but sadly not mine.  I really feel bad for all of us hardworking top rateds.   WE KNOW hard work! 

I think in theory the policy sounds good but in practice is too over the top against sellers.  My last thought on this is if it makes so much sense to offer this then perhaps ebay could pick up that cost.  Between fees, supplies, and shipping my $10 item gets me $5 and that buys my items.  Profit?  Perhaps $1 on each.  Returns?  #financial loss #bankrupt #homeless  Thoughts?  Please respond with your ideas and if you are opting in.

[mr_lincoln]

@xchains  Great Post and insight.  Key point is eBay has lost its edge as the leader in the online sales industry and is spending too much time and Sellers' money playing catch up with Amazon.  If they would look around outside their own world they would see that Amazon is not the panacea of all online sales venues ... they have their issues too.  I think in the long run the Free Returns move will flop.  

One thing you may not have made clear is that any items that do not have Free Returns will also not have the TRS+ badge displayed ... I was bent out of shape with this until I saw the new Seller Info layout and new TRS+ Badge ... my first impression when I saw it was it looked like a miniature blue Hospital road sign, you know the ones I mean, the white H on a blue background.  They also moved the Seller info down the page and stuck it in a new window.  So now Buyers making that quick little glance up and right to see who the Seller is will not see them at first unless they glance downward.  Anyway, they obviously want the Seller to be disconnected from the item and they are trying to give the impression that the item is eBay's and not an individual Seller. (pic below).

I could care less about the 10% FVF TRS+ discount but I thing the OLD TRS+ badge that looks like a First Place Ribbon from the County Fair is more attracitve and attention getting.  The new layout without the TRS+ badge makes a 20 Year Seller like you look the same as a 1 hour old Selling ID that just got started and has Selling limits of 10 items and $ 200.00.  And that is simply wrong and somewhat insulting.  The value of the older badge I believe is the confidence it instills in a Buyer ... they do the quick glance, see the badge and then eyes back to the item ...