Found a serious bug with FedEx & ebay API. Reported it to BBB, FTC and about to file a lawsuit

[rockstaridea]

ISSUE 1:
I sold a $4,000.00 espresso machine ($15k new) on eBay.  Took a low bid offer of $1,100.  I used the eBay FedEx label generator tool.   Spent $60+ on packing materials, even worked with a local FedEx employee to finish packing and taping up the box.

Ebay shows my label cost was $109.77 (including the insurance I purchased).

The label price was originally, $86.25 BEFORE insurance.

Yet when I go here to my "Seller Account Fees" the FedEx Shipping fee conveniently excludes the insurance I purchased.

To show how deceptive this website is.... I'd like to recreate the steps I took.

If I go to the "Print another label option" the screenshot shows a cheaper rate at around $88.12. Screenshot 1:
https://i.aprv.me/YEud7ezK

After selecting the "Purchase and print label" you can see the "FedEx Insurance for packaging amount" is pre-filled.  And the Total price is auto-updated.

https://i.aprv.me/qGuDQq9R

I clicked "Purchase and Print label" a label was immediately generated and I was led to believe I was charged for the extra insurance I selected.  My account even still shows this higher shipping amount: https://i.aprv.me/KouegEQK

Yet, if I click the "$109.77" I get a 'ebay refused to connect' error. https://i.aprv.me/WnuEQ6EX

The package (and contents) were mangled.  Absolutely destroyed in shipping!  The buyer (obviously) refused the package.  

I contacted FedEx about refunds and insurance and they said I have to contact eBay.  I contacted eBay and they said they don't see the insurance.  I contacted ShipCover and they said the label wasn't covered for some reason even though I paid for it (and my account still reflects the higher paid amount which included the additional insurance price).

ISSUE 2:
I was sent $1,520.75 via Paypal for this transaction.  However, I only received $1,355.60 minus fees and taxes.  Yet Paypal (via eBay) withdrew $1,400 from my account.

EBays insurance policy is manipulative and misleading and borderline criminal to consumers.  I fully plan on reporting this extremely mis-leading behavior to the FTC and any other consumer rights organizations.

Under seller account it shows the price was $86.25 (which did not include the insurance I purchased).

Paid $109.77 for the label which included  and extra $21.65 for insurance (declared value of $1,100).  

I have already submitted a case with the Better Business Bureau, submitted a complain with the Federal Trade Comission and if this issue is not corrected I will most certainly be filing a lawsuit in the state of California against eBay Inc. as these misleading consumer practices are illegal. 

What I am requesting:
1. My seller account is currently showing I owe $US $226.25.  I want a complete/full refund from the seller account.

2. In addition to the refund of the above fees, I need a check or deposit in the amount of $1,100 insurance to cover the damaged espresso machine which is useless now.

3. I need the -$44.40 difference refunded back into my paypal account.

[rockstaridea]

Here is the shipping label amount (excluding the insurance) which was charged to the seller account.

[bonjourami]

Sorry if I am confused..so you want the shipping label cost and insurance refunded too?

[rockstaridea]

My $1,100 package was damaged.  I was led to believe as a consumer that I purchased insurance using the eBay platform (see the $109.77 screenshot above) but the label that was generated on the backend and sent to FedEx did not include the insurance, it was the cheaper label (without the insurance) for $86.25.  When I try and click on the $109.77 transaction eBay can't connect via the FedEx API.  

If a user clicks the checkbox "Add additional insurance... cost may vary" the price updates automatically and they are allowed to click "Purchase and Print Label" (for FedEx) however, my hunch is that the eBay developers are using the second "Add" button as the insurance validator.  So if users (like myself) click the checkbox to add but don't click "Add" a second time (which is ridiculous to ask a user to click twice, and from a user experience perspective gives the user the impression that they are adding additional insurance, not the insurance they already added from the checkbox) it breaks the eBay to FedEx API web socket.  A label is still created but the insurance is not properly added on the backend.  I'm left believing I was charged $109.77 (the amount with insurance) and in fact the eBay platform only charges my seller account $86.25 (the amount without insurance).

The screenshot with $94.67 is me re-creating the bug.  Showing how the amount is updated in real-time when the Add checkbox is checked. See screencast: https://i.aprv.me/2NurgwR6

This isn't a problem for most people UNTIL they have a $1,100 espresso machine damaged in shipping and FedEx employees telling them the label didn't include the insurance that the consumer purchased.  

[earlyant-77]

Did you click 'Add' after you selected the insurance checkbox?

Also, that insurance wouldn't be under Shipcover - it's Fed Ex insurance.

[orangehound]

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@rockstaridea wrote:

My $1,100 package was damaged.  I was led to believe as a consumer that I purchased insurance using the eBay platform (see the $109.77 screenshot above) but the label that was generated on the backend and sent to FedEx did not include the insurance, it was the cheaper label (without the insurance) for $86.25.  When I try and click on the $109.77 transaction eBay can't connect via the FedEx API.  

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I'm also a little confused ... could you click on your labels, find the charge (you will have to expand beyond the default of 7 days), and click on the charge to see the details of both the estimated and actual charges?  It will look similar to the following:

Also, please block out personal information so that the information stays on here (images with personal information such as addresses and account names, will get removed).

[rockstaridea]

 

[orangehound]

That is a problem with your computer or app ... I was just able to see results on a PC with no problems.   Perhaps try logging off and then back in.

[rockstaridea]

I was able to get the popover to generate in another browser.  However, it still proves what I've been saying all along.  It was estimated at $109.77 because I clicked "Add additional insurance" checkbox. The price (without insurance) was $86.25.  If I have checked the box "Add additional insurance" and then immediately click "Purchase and print label" I as a consumer am under the impression that I have "Add-ed additional insurance" since I was able to "Purchase and print label."  This is the deceptive and illegal consumer web pattern that I have reported to the Federal Trade Commission and Better Business Bureau.   That platform gives a false sense of security to the consumer that they had purchased insurance because the price is immediately adjusted once the checkbox is checked and the user is able to successfully checkout https://i.aprv.me/eDu9mgqy.

I am confident any judge or FTC investigator will side with these facts.

[rockstaridea]

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/07/dark-patterns-are-designed-to-trick-you-and-t...

Legal Solutions

If dark patterns are better designed and more abundant than ever, is there any way to slow the practice down? One possible solution is a legal one. “I’ve recently started to find the idea of better regulation appealing,” said Brignull. “If you put consumer laws in place that’ll prevent a company from doing something, they’ll follow the laws, but as soon as it’s just down to ethics, it’s anybody’s guess how they choose to behave, or to rationalize things in their mind to see something as ethical when maybe it’s not, or the consumer wouldn’t see it that way.”

The Federal Trade Commission Act’s prohibition on unfair and deceptive acts or practices does extend to online advertising, marketing, and sales. Regulation is tricky, however, because—again—many dark patterns are technically legal, skirting the rules without breaking them. Some deceptive patterns that are used in the US are illegal in other countries even.

That said, lawsuits can be effective. Lately, subscription sites have been coming under legal fire. JustFab (the owner of ShoeDazzle and Fabletics) paid a $1.88 million fine to settle allegations of deceptive marketing. After the legal settlement, JustFab now posts a total of 14 notifications about its subscription service and requires readers to affirm their decision to become members two times, according Bloomberg.

Other sites are following suit. Stamps.com paid out $2.5 million in a lawsuit similar to JustFab; Blue Apron and Birchbox are facing lawsuits as well. A site called AdoreMe.com has also been hit with a lawsuit that even prompted design action. The site opts first-time users into a VIP membership with a recurring monthly subscription, but now the company has made changes to its website to make it easier for users to cancel… which led to a 30-percent increase in refunds and a 15-percent decrease in subscriptions. Still, the negative option billing—which requires users to opt out of specific sales to avoid a charge—remains. The practice continues to be legal with some stipulations.

[orangehound]

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@rockstaridea wrote:

I was able to get the popover to generate in another browser.  However, it still proves what I've been saying all along.  It was estimated at $109.77 because I clicked "Add additional insurance" checkbox. The price (without insurance) was $86.25. 

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I can't get the math to work out properly, but allow me to give you some information:

1. FedEx insurance for a 1,100 declared value is $11.55.  The difference of 109.77-86.25 is 23.52 ... so this difference is not due to FedEx insurance, and eBay doesn't offer any other insurance programs for FedEx shipments (that I'm aware of).
2. The details that you show are not showing that insurance was purchased.   But, since I don't purchase insurance, I have no idea if this is broken out with FedEx's billing.
3. The "Estimated Shipping Costs" show a $5 charge for signature ... this is the 2019 rate, and eBay hasn't updated their estimator on the shipping page.  In addition, the "Estimated Shipping Costs" show a weight of 137 pounds ... this will trigger a $24 surcharge in the estimate (for a package over 50 pounds).

What does this mean?  If the $86.25 represents eBay's negotiated rate for a 50# package with dimensions of 33x24x24, then I can get close to the estimated number they show ... that is

    86.25 ... Actual Shipping Cost

   - 0.25 ... Difference in 2020 and 2019 rates for signature confirmation

+24.00 ... Surcharge for weight in the estimate

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110.00 ... the amount of the estimate. 

I'm off by 23 cents, but that's my best guess as why you had a 109.77 estimated charge ... I've played with the numbers a dozen different ways, and I can't even get close to figuring out how 109.77 could have included insurance.

In other words, I can't get the numbers to work out perfectly, but I don't see where insurance was purchased.

(It would be a good exercise to go back to your original order and attempt to do a second label ... those would give you a better number).

[kensgiftshop]

When you dropped the item off, did you ask about the insurance, to make sure it was covered?