ebay seller protection will not cover "item not as described" if customer goes directly to their cc

[taeusedautoparts813]

hello we recently sold an engine to a customer in California for the amount of $14,000. the customer claimed the item was not as described. we offered to have the item picked up and returned to us and we would cover all associated charges. customer was evasive and would not allow us to have the engine picked up. we even contacted the shop it was delivered to with no help. instead of opening a return the customer reached out to their credit card company and did a charge back. we disputed it and of course the buyer won with their cc company which is not a surprise. what was a surprise was the fact eBay would not cover us under seller protection bc the customer did not open a return and went straight to their cc company. so bc the customer did not open a return, and did the charge back under "item not as described" eBay will not cover you under seller protection. i feel this is a horrible loophole in their system and basically was told it could happen again. i have multiple messages eBay reviewed showing the customer telling us he would not return the item, that his cc company will refund him, and good luck getting engine back. taunting us. all documented. and zero help from eBay in recovering the engine or the funds. so we are now out almost $28,000 with zero help from a platform we have been selling on for over 15 years. I felt I needed to share this story so other sellers know this is a possible scenario for you as well and that seller protection is not guaranteed even if you do everything by the book. not to mention we also received a negative feedback from the customer that eBay will not remove. what a horrible experience. I hope this can help another seller from being scammed bc thats pretty much what happened to us. customer received a free engine at our expense. and we received no protection or compensation.....

[realtypro8885]

Why no return policy makes it a good target for scammers to charge back and not return item?

[gurlcat]

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@realtypro8885 wrote:

Why no return policy makes it a good target for scammers to charge back and not return item?

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Because they know that if they file a chargeback, the bank will look at it like 'This customer CAN'T return the item, but they deserve their money back'.  -It doesn't matter that they actually could return the item because of eBay's Money Back Guarantee (regardless of what the seller's listing says).  -The banks simply will not mess with a discrepancy like that; they have bazillions of cases to handle, with oodles of different types of merchants (brick and mortar stores, online stores, 3rd party online platforms like eBay, etc.) -each with their own rules about returns.  So the scammer just has to show their bank that they bought from a seller who chose 'No Returns' for the item listing, and bam, they get a refund without having to return.  

[albany_sellers]

Whole lot of victim blaming going on here. I hope it happens to everybody here who is blaming the seller, then we will see how much it is not the buyer's fault.

[gurlcat]

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@albany_sellers wrote:

Whole lot of victim blaming going on here. I hope it happens to everybody here who is blaming the seller, then we will see how much it is not the buyer's fault.

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-not the buyer's fault?  Who here said THAT?  Obviously this buyer is lowdown scum -did you think nobody could see that just because we didn't say it?  The problem is, not only are there plenty of other scammers on eBay besides that one, this exact same outcome could have come from a totally innocent buyer, receiving a broken or incorrect item, going to the order page and seeing 'Seller Does Not Accept Returns' and thinking the only other solution is to file a payment dispute (chargeback) with their bank ...... which would still result in them getting to keep the item, and the seller having the refund snatched from their funds. 

As for "victim blaming" I have to ask if you're new to the forums because you'll easily find much harsher actual victim blaming than this thread.  We're only correcting the premise of this victim's post -they thought they had Seller Protections just from being a seller, but in fact their No Return policy cancels their protection.  It's like if someone got burglarized, which they thought couldn't happen because the house has a fence around it ..... so they thought the didn't need to lock their doors.  Bottom line, offering free returns is the best defense against chargebacks.  It certainly hasn't failed me yet.  Sorry if your wish that all of us get scammed doesn't come true.   

By the way, it doesn't look like the victim is following here anyway -they only made one reply the same day they started the post, in which they explained why they do 'No Returns.'   And that is a shame, because if they don't change their return policy this will likely keep happening to them.  Same with anyone else reading the thread -I can't speak for anyone else but it's for any/all readers that I went to the trouble of finding and posting my evidence of how to get Seller Protections from eBay, and maybe even the buyer's bank.  

[gurlcat]

By the way, if you want to decrease your chance of being victimized, you might want to reconsider your  'Buyer Pays Return Shipping' policy.  -Say someone buys your wooden Abe Lincoln figure .... then receives it and gets buyer's remorse, thinking of things they wished they spent all that money on.  If they want to return it and not pay $61.40 for the shipping (by the way, why so much for a < 2 pound item??), they only have a couple of choices: either do a chargeback with their bank, or purposely damage poor Abe and say he came that way, in order to get an INAD free return label.  -Been there, done that, with a pair of designer boots -buyer stabbed one in the sole with a knife, like that could happen in the mail -but obviously I had to just give them a refund, no way to sell a boot with a giant slash in the bottom.  That was the last day I had anything but FREE returns on any of my listings. 

[dragonbolt55]

I'm confused. You mentioned you did this through PayPal. Are you not on Managed Payments? The case file screenshot looks like it was uploaded to eBay, so how did this go to PayPal?

Thanks 

[gurlcat]

Yes I'm on MP.  But that buyer used her Paypal account to PURCHASE the item -totally separate from how sellers get paid for our sales.  -So Paypal is who this buyer filed the chargeback with, but they rejected it because she didn't try to handle her problem through eBay first (as in, do a return).  People act like buyers' banks, cards, Paypal etc. are always happy to allow their customers to steal from merchants like eBay, but it is simply not true.  

[precious_metals_alliance]

     Our heart goes out to you  its a big hit, ourselves  after 18 years here on eBay selling same exact  trademarked items we learned the same today that eBay SELLER PROTECTION is worthless when a buyer opened an "item not as described"  case  FOUR MONTH AFTER DELIVERY DATE yes FOUR MONTH after delivery date with  his/her financial institution , note buyer never opened a return case for full refund no questions asked we offer unlike many bullion sellers. Mind blowing , we filed an immediate response same day case was open.

 Today we get an answer from eBay that financial institution sided with buyer and eBay charged us another $20 fee for "fighting" on our behalf , in the same paragraph it said that  eBay SELLER PROTECTION does not cover us despite following guidelines to the letter meaning shipping within 24 hours , shipping only to address given to us by eBay where we print all our labels ..BLAH BLAH BLAH  but we can appeal , so we figured it worth trying to get someone on the PHONE and we did get someone that explained that seller protection DOES NOT apply since buyer opened case with his/her financial institution ....they can only cover us for the $20 fee that they will issue a refund ??????????   so we loose the case and the gold bar !

PLEASE GIVE US SOME INPUT WHAT IS GOING ON ?  what  difference it makes if  obvious scammer buyer opens case with ebay , financial institution or his Grand mother ?  IF WE FOLLOWED SELLING GUIDELINES and COUNT ON eBay seller PROTECTION .  Sad put vacation on and this might be straw that broke camels back. 😞

[gurlcat]

 I'm sorry to do this but I have to disagree with "note buyer never opened a return case for full refund no questions asked we offer unlike many bullion sellers." 

This is what I see regarding returns on your listings. 


'Buyer pays' is not "no questions asked".  Buyers literally have to answer the question of why they are returning.  Also seller protections only come in to play for items with 30 days or more of returns accepted.  -I know, the buyer filed the chargeback after 4 months, so having 30 day returns wouldn't have stopped them from filing, or even winning (according to their bank) but eBay would have paid for the refund out of their own pocket, rather than take the funds from you.  I would highly recommend changing all your returns to 30 day, and better yet, 30 days free returns. That is actual "no questions asked." 

[mr_lincoln]

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@gurlcat wrote:

By the way, if you want to decrease your chance of being victimized, you might want to reconsider your  'Buyer Pays Return Shipping' policy.  -Say someone buys your wooden Abe Lincoln figure .... then receives it and gets buyer's remorse, thinking of things they wished they spent all that money on.  If they want to return it and not pay $61.40 for the shipping (by the way, why so much for a < 2 pound item??), they only have a couple of choices: either do a chargeback with their bank, or purposely damage poor Abe and say he came that way, in order to get an INAD free return label.  -Been there, done that, with a pair of designer boots -buyer stabbed one in the sole with a knife, like that could happen in the mail -but obviously I had to just give them a refund, no way to sell a boot with a giant slash in the bottom.  That was the last day I had anything but FREE returns on any of my listings. 

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@gurlcat   This would be very, very bad for a Buyer to damage Abe ...