ebay seller protection will not cover "item not as described" if customer goes directly to their cc

[taeusedautoparts813]

hello we recently sold an engine to a customer in California for the amount of $14,000. the customer claimed the item was not as described. we offered to have the item picked up and returned to us and we would cover all associated charges. customer was evasive and would not allow us to have the engine picked up. we even contacted the shop it was delivered to with no help. instead of opening a return the customer reached out to their credit card company and did a charge back. we disputed it and of course the buyer won with their cc company which is not a surprise. what was a surprise was the fact eBay would not cover us under seller protection bc the customer did not open a return and went straight to their cc company. so bc the customer did not open a return, and did the charge back under "item not as described" eBay will not cover you under seller protection. i feel this is a horrible loophole in their system and basically was told it could happen again. i have multiple messages eBay reviewed showing the customer telling us he would not return the item, that his cc company will refund him, and good luck getting engine back. taunting us. all documented. and zero help from eBay in recovering the engine or the funds. so we are now out almost $28,000 with zero help from a platform we have been selling on for over 15 years. I felt I needed to share this story so other sellers know this is a possible scenario for you as well and that seller protection is not guaranteed even if you do everything by the book. not to mention we also received a negative feedback from the customer that eBay will not remove. what a horrible experience. I hope this can help another seller from being scammed bc thats pretty much what happened to us. customer received a free engine at our expense. and we received no protection or compensation.....

[ebooksdiva]

eBay doesn’t get involved with credit card chargebacks. The only charge backs eBay will stand behind you on are INRs where you can prove delivery. 
Sorry this happened to you.  

[heckofagame]

Your no return policy makes you a great target for scams like these. 

[cstpos]

@taeusedautoparts813  As mentioned, if you have your listings as No Returns, buyers will assume they have no recourse but to file a chargeback. If you change your listings to accept returns, that will give you some control over the return process. Buyers will have the opportunity to open a return, and you can decide to accept or decline. You should have had an opportunity to respond to the chargeback and upload your proof that you agreed to a return and that you would cover the pickup or shipping. That's a big loss to absorb. There are shady, dishonest people everywhere, looking for an angle or a scam to run. Maybe you can reach out to the cc company and ask how you could dispute it as you offered to make good on it for the buyer.

[asset_liquidators]

That has nothing to do with this. Nothing at all. Seller offered to take the return and retrieve the item.

[retro_entertainment_collectibles]

You need to contact you're local authorities to file fraud charges, at that amount its a felony.  After doing so with you're authorities you need contact authorities local to him and inform them.  You want provide all documentations you have.  As you call you're local and his authorities you want ask if they have an Internet Fraud department, most do.  You'll want the filing numbers, copies of whatever reports filed.  You'll want ask of authorities yours and local to him about search and seizure warrant being issued.  Again, documentation matters, pictures of the engine, serial numbers etc if you have all that.

If all goes correct his local authorities will arrest him and you'll get contact from that District Attorneys Offices as a crime has been committed and again at that amount its a felony.  Hopefully you can the engine back in time but if not there is also civil court where you can sue for total and have process served as unlikely he'll show.

Additionally should a conviction occur you can submit that documentation to Adyen directly and/or your bank to get into the hands of the Visa/MC risk assessment and cyber crime unit.  They too can file against him.

[caldreamer]

Sorry this happened to you.   EBAY has no authority over credit card company.    When customer ask credit card company to "reverse payment" they get to keep BOTH item and your money.   This is why most seller "allow returns" (at least you get the item back).   Only thing you can is sue in small claims court.

Also, you have to understand there really is no such thing as "no returns".   EBAY Money Back Guarantee (supersedes your "no returns" policy) and allows customers to lie and get a refund by claiming "not as described, defective, counterfeit".   EBAY are NOT required to prove their claims.  EBAY always rules in favor of the customer (even if they return a "box of rocks").

Again, I am sorry but these are the hazards of selling online.  

[12345jamesstamps]

You need to change "no returns" to returns and this would not have happened.

It's very sad this happened but it could happen again. 

A credit card dispute with a "no returns" sign means a refund for the buyer plus the item for free.

I would immediately change no returns and do returns. Also posting this here is going to give more crooks out there this idea.

And always check buyer's feedback and how new the buyer is to eBay when sending out something of that amount to someone. I would even google the buyer's address to see if its OK to mail such an item where it would arrive safely.

[mener-andre]

So sorry this happened to you. I would suggest what others have already suggested that you look into reporting fraud. I had a customer do a CC chargeback on a VCR I shipped the item showed delivered therefore Ebay sided with me. But it sounds like your case is a bit different I dont think theres much else to be done on Ebays end. I hope and pray all turns out ok and works out for you in the end. 

[luckythewinner]

what was a surprise was the fact eBay would not cover us under seller protection bc the customer did not open a return and went straight to their cc company

I have read their seller protection policy so it does not surprise me. 

[buyselljack2016]

Returns/no returns.......................  has little bearing when a buyer knows what they are doing.

[redlinear]

That sure sucks, been there.
You do need to change the return policy.
BUT, in this case, it would only be so the policy is "stated".  When it comes to LTL freight, you still have to do exactly as you attempted.  And the outcome would have probably been the same.
     I had to stop selling big ticket items here.
Then again, if you extend credit to "linked" yards and businesses, Then you know at the end of the year, 20% to 30% isn't collectible and eventually ends up getting written off.
  So, other than cash, it all works out about the same at the end of the day.

[b86fiero]

Did you notify the shop it was shipped to that you will be pursuing theft and internet fraud charges? The shop has / had custody of the engine so they could be caught up in a legal mess. 

Any legitimate business would not want anything to do with fraudster.

I honestly hope you pursue this diligently and that you succeed in getting the engine returned.  And if by any chance you do get the engine back go over it with a fine tooth comb and then file for damages.

[m60driver]

Regardless of the amount, fraud by chargeback is just part of online retail.  The only hope is to have congress change the outdated laws that allow banks to protect their most profitable sector, credit cards, at the expense of online retailers.

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[taeusedautoparts813]

I understand what you are saying but even tho it says that ebay allows returns to be opened. We do that for freight items bc they are costly to ship and costly for returns. Buyer was asked to open a return. We even tried to have the freight carrier go pick the engine up and was told to leave that the engine would not be returned.  It's definitely a learning experience and not blaming ebay