ebay's Ranking Algorithms Are A Joke!

[gamersbaystore]

As part of ebay Open 2022, director of product management & search, Pravesh Katyal, explains how ebay is further punishing sellers ability to rank based on aspects that remain completely outside of their control.

Katyal explains the more SNAD and INR claims you receive, the lower you will rank.

Too bad sellers have no control over the garbage estimated delivery dates ebay gives to buyers. ebay ignores sellers shipping policies, including handling times, and ebay is the one who decides what the estimates are.

What Katyal is saying is the more buyers who lie about the reasons for their returns, and open cases for INR's as a result of ebay's incompetence, the lower sellers will rank as a result.

I have been hammered with constant item not received claims this entire year! All orders were shipped within my stated handling time, all were received by buyers.

How are we supposed to avoid INR's when we haven't an ounce of control over what the delivery estimates are?

And let's face it, buyers are rarely ever honest about the reasons for their returns.

So this explains why my store has been trashed in search this year and I'm getting practically zero traffic. All those INR's have destroyed my business, and at no fault of my own. I've tried extending my handling times, ebay just ignores it.

Remember sellers, ebay says its your fault ebay lied to your buyers with junk delivery estimates.

Here's the video where Katyal explains how ebay is further trashing its sellers:

Fundamental Training Session: How to Make Search and Promoted Listings Work for You 

[debvor]

The "customer is always right" is crap in the Ebay world. We, the sellers, are Ebay's customers and yet we are always wrong in Ebay's eyes!!!!!! Imagine a world where Ebay treated the sellers like valued customers. I know that's a pipe dream. Ebay sells nothing except a venue and yet they want complete control over our businesses. The problem is Ebay has taken on the Walmart model and all the sellers are is vendors. Nothing more. 

[debvor]

A huge part of the problem is Ebay's search engine. You do a search for a very specific item and you get all kinds of crap that you absolutely don't want. I always look to see what items that I am listing are selling for (I don't trust info that Ebay gives me) but the problem is getting so much that has nothing to do with what I searched for. Doing a search as a buyer is even more frustrating. From time to time I look on Ebay to buy something and it is extremely frustrating when I get so much crap that has nothing to do with my search. No matter how specific you get, even minusing out word, you still get garbage. 

[katzrul15]

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@gamersbaystore wrote:

Exactly! My rank has been down the tubes as well, and I suspect it has something to do with all those INR's I had. My traffic died off in March as well and never came back, its only gotten far worse since.

Its disgraceful how ebay punishes sellers for getting ripped off and harassed by freeloading buyers. A seller gets robbed, then told they're being punished for it with a hit to their metrics, its ate up.

Get enough of those INR's and SNADS, then you're stuck paying inflated fees. The policies are designed to ensure everyone fails miserably and ebay makes more money.

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@gamersbaystore 

We had a rash of the fraud and those "returns"/chargebacks do not roll off for a year.  Skews your ratios on a singular level.  If this penalty phase is true, it truly explains why we suddenly dropped off the radar.

Not our items or what we are selling - we were dropped in rank due to the fraud.  And are now paying 10-12% in PLs to re-gain exposure.

This is messed up.

@mr_lincolncan you weigh in on this?

It would explain "why" sellers experienced sudden/abrupt changes in sales.

[powell-memorabilia]

Seller ratings (the metrics) are based on your seller peer group.  If you have a relatively high rate of INR and SNAD cases, best to look at how you can rise to the level of the competition.

[mr_lincoln]

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@katzrul15 wrote:

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@gamersbaystore wrote:

Exactly! My rank has been down the tubes as well, and I suspect it has something to do with all those INR's I had. My traffic died off in March as well and never came back, its only gotten far worse since.

Its disgraceful how ebay punishes sellers for getting ripped off and harassed by freeloading buyers. A seller gets robbed, then told they're being punished for it with a hit to their metrics, its ate up.

Get enough of those INR's and SNADS, then you're stuck paying inflated fees. The policies are designed to ensure everyone fails miserably and ebay makes more money.

---

@gamersbaystore 

We had a rash of the fraud and those "returns"/chargebacks do not roll off for a year.  Skews your ratios on a singular level.  If this penalty phase is true, it truly explains why we suddenly dropped off the radar.

Not our items or what we are selling - we were dropped in rank due to the fraud.  And are now paying 10-12% in PLs to re-gain exposure.

This is messed up.

@mr_lincoln

can you weigh in on this?

It would explain "why" sellers experienced sudden/abrupt changes in sales.

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Hi @katzrul15 ,

Several issues here in reading the OP and a few other posts ...

1. Seller metrics & Ranking:  One of THE biggest issues is eBay having the No returns acceped setting for pretty much ALL item on eBay.  If they would limit that to specific categories where it might apply OR for Grading values like "Junk - Parts only" then it would cut down on a lot of INAD - SNAD issues.  Meaning, block the INAD-SNAD reason for returns on Junk-Parts only.  At the end of the day eBay wants ALL Sellers to be like a WalMart or other store that pretty much accepts returns without question and refunds their customers.   You may recall that years ago eBay created the INAD return to force Sellers to pay the return shipping which allowed them to dance around the No returns accepted setting by Sellers ... right there is the issue, eBay CREATED an environment that promoted Buyers to lie and Sellers had a hand in it "thinking" if they use the No returns Accepted setting they were guarantying their sales would stick.  I read MANY posts where Sellers complain a Buyer wants to return something but they have No returns accepted listed ...

2. INR:  This one is a bit of a mystery unless it relates to some new shipping service (like the one for baseball cards) where tracking was inconsistent by the carrier (USPS in this case).  While it is not widely published, ANY Seller can call for an extension of an INR claim and eBay will grant up to 4 days.  During Covid they upt that to 10 days BUT Sellers had to make the effort to call ...now contacting Home Office is more of a challenge but as far as I know they will still Extend INR claim windows for Sellers.  Again, during  Covid we had several INR claims levied against us but each time we got the extension PLUS filing a Missing mail piece with USPS which often shook the package loose in 2 days.

3. INAD - SNAD defects:  eBay explained that the best way to get defects removed on a bogus return is to use the Report Buyer link on the transaction and then process the return through to completion.  It's part of the Seller Protection and defects will be removed ... I've seen that on the report they send out.  For myself, if a Buyers lies about a return I report them, period.  I don't get a lot of returns and most work out to where I can resell the item but a few have not.  Those get the Buyer reported for sure, defects removed and less than Positive FB blocked. 

4. Seller metrics are subjective:  If you read the Accepted Solution by the OP you will read some points I have made about Seller Metrics in general.  It is a Subjective system right down to the Return rating comparing us to our "Peers" ... unless one is selling brand new T-shirts and/or under ware most Sellers have no Peers who sell ... the ... exact ... same ... things, so comparisons are worthless.   INAD-SNAD returns are subjective because of the lying environment eBay created ... nothing to do with Sellers, that one is on eBay.

In closing, not all Sellers are honest either so there DOES need to be some safeguards in place but not all of the ones currently in place fit the bill.  

Mr. L

[rumby_mimi]

Ya, but that's not the point.
The real issue is those measurements for metrics are out of the hands of sellers. Sellers have no control.
USPS, UPS, FEDEX shipping delay.
Buyers lie about INAD'S or INR'S to get free items or free return shipping label
The more you sell, the higher risk you have

If sellers shipped out orders the same day with proper shipping channels and get scan by USPS, after that, shipping delay should not fall on sellers shoulders.
If buyer wants return item for refund, whatever reason it might be, sellers provide prepaid return shipping label and refund after return received, what crime do sellers commit? This is honest, legit business practice already.
Most sellers are not manufactures, most sellers are just like Walmart, Costco reselling products by manufactures.
Do you see the long long customers return line outside of Walmart, Costco? So by eBay's standard, Walmart, Costco should be punished and forced to downsize their business?

Mentality is the issue, Buyers are always right, sellers are always wrong. sellers are the culprits. If you sell a thing, make some profit, you are doubtful. What are these? Are we communists?
These non-real life business men are running a real business site, they get paycheck periodically to sustain life with no risk and certainly could hardly imagine the harshness of running business.
Most sellers here are small sellers. It's just too much of a burden to have small sellers carry huge responsibility as humongous corporations.

There are just too many regulations, restrictions, depressing rules, measurements to prevent small business growing.
How we gonna get prosperous by these standards?
eBay, AMAZON stock price are down big time, Yes, people blame this on Economy. But yet on the other end, it's actually the mentality behind the management team to punish sellers preventing our economy become prosperous.

eBay wants to overstep, surpass AMAZON ? You need a different thinking, take care of your honest sellers.

[mr_lincoln]

@rumby_mimi 

I agree that the economy is NOT the reason sales are down on eBay ... if the economy was truly the cause then I would be getting tons inventory from other sources dirt cheap and that is NOT happening ... 

Mr. L

[katzrul15]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

@rumby_mimi 

I agree that the economy is NOT the reason sales are down on eBay ... if the economy was truly the cause then I would be getting tons inventory from other sources dirt cheap and that is NOT happening ... 

Mr. L

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Exactly.  Inventory is at an all time premium.

[vintage_sterling_spoon_rings]

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@mr_lincoln wrote: I agree that the economy is NOT the reason sales are down on eBay ... if the economy was truly the cause then I would be getting tons inventory from other sources dirt cheap and that is NOT happening ... Mr. L

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You're right Mr. L, My experience shows that one of the reasons some sales are going down for some is because they're asking prices (at least from items I buy here on eBay) have increased insanely. Spoons that I bought a year ago for $15 to $20 each sellers are now asking $40 to $80 dollars.

I've stopped looking at Disneyland souvenir spoon offerings for that reason and that reason alone.

[meme6253]

I Hate Algorithms!!!!

[gamersbaystore]

For me the problem isnt getting items scanned, its the bad delivery estimates that ebay gives buyers and all the INR's that give me a constant headache.

[gamersbaystore]

What you stated is exactly the problem! The estimates are based on your history. The faster you ship, the more ebay lies to your customers with trash delivery estimates.

My movies, music, and books, all ship media mail. Yet, ebay gives buyers ridiculous 2 and 3 day delivery estimates for these items all the time. They almost never arrive by the estimated dates ebay gives out.

I have a 3 day handling time for all my listings. But I'd technically have to ship everything 2 to 3 days before the buyer ever ordered in order for them to receive their item on time.

The narcissists who run this company seem to get joy out of inflicting misery on others.

[gamersbaystore]

You're right that ebay used to extend delivery estimates upon request. Every time I've tried the last 2 years my requests were denied. ebay doesn't seem to allow it anymore.

As for SNAD's, ebay doesn't remove them anymore, they remain on your record no matter what. If the buyer lies about the reasons for their return and I report them, they will typically remove their negative feedback, but the SNAD remains counted against me every time. ebay told me again and again, sorry, we cannot remove it.

Even when ebay kicks out a scamming buyer, the fact they initiated a return with SNAD remains and you cant get rid of it.

ebay's service metrics are designed to ensure everyone fails and are forced to pay inflated fees for having a high rate of sales not as described. I don't believe for a second they measure us against our peers.

[gamersbaystore]

I agree, there is no such thing as no returns with ebay. My concern is buyers lying about the reasons for their returns, which negatively affects sellers.

I switched to free returns and buyers are still lying about the reasons for their returns anyway.

I had a buyer recently open a case for INAD, claiming his music CD wasn't as described. He goes on a long whining rant about it, uploaded a bunch of pictures.

Too bad the buyer failed to realize I offered free returns to begin with, and there was no need to whine or lie about anything.

His claims were loaded with lies too, he got exactly what he ordered. Just another broke clown begging for refunds. Had he actually read the listing, he would've known there was nothing to dispute, just return it, but he never even read the listing before he hit buy it now.

[dolcetreasures]

Those peer groups are nonsense. eBay cannot explain to me how in one year I went from 50% lower than my peers to 50% higher than my peers, meanwhile there was an increase for everyone’s baseline. Despite pointing out that every NAD was false.