account restricted again, innocent again, here is the proof

[simplecellunlock]

brian.t@ebay

sorry I tagged you directly but I do not know any other admins on here and you were involved last time so you are familiar with me being railroaded by ebay when I am innocent, and watched me prove my innocence last time...so here goes.

eBay is at it again and so close to the holidays!

I was handed down another restriction, this time a more serious one for 7 days...and again I am innocent.

Here is the email I received a few hours ago, sorry about delay in posting this but it took me hours to find the two incidents that ebay spoke of.  From the beginning;

Below are the details where the activity occurred:
182830976628 - SAMSUNG Galaxy S6/Note 5 FRP/Google Account Bypass Removal Service Android 6 & 7
182830896934 - UNLOCK SERVICE FOR SPRINT SAMSUNG GALAXY S8 G950U & S8+ G955U INSTANT!!!!!

 

=============================

I managed to track this down to 2 buyers, and what would you know?  Can you guess it even though I already said it?  Yep I am innocent.  

Let us start with the item # 182830896934 on Dec 12, 2017.

Buyer sent me message at 14:38 on 12/12/2017 providing Team Viewer connect information, I connected to buyer's PC...unlocked the 2 phones she had that I was capable of unlocking and then accepted payment.  

Why am I getting in trouble for this?  There is a very clear track record of buyer paying and placing 2 orders within 15-20 minutes of this message being sent!  

The only thing I can think of is her saying "i have 5 screens" but as you can see she said she only had 2 phones.  By 5 screens she meant 5 screens on her work computer to which I was connecting, and when I connected it was confusing getting everything I needed to work with, on the only screen team viewer let me see on my single monitor setup.  Still though, she clearly says 2 phones, and she paid for 2 items....

=====================================

now onto the next issue in the offending email which is item number 182830976628.

This one is very clear.  He had a new security phone in which I was unable to unlock and I refunded him.  The next day I came across a post in my phone unlocking forum that I thought would help me unlock his phone, so I reached out to him again, he said he still having issues,  and he provided me with his team viewer information.  I connected to his PC, failed to unlock phone, and we went along our seperate ways.  I NEVER ACCEPTED PAYMENT BECAUSE I FAILED TO UNLOCK PHONE!!!!   I REFUNDED BUYER!!!!!  I was not about to accept payment again, only to refund again if I failed.  I was doing service before payment.  I failed both attempts, so I did not charge buyer.  Simple as that.  

To prove I did not accept payment, I sent buyer a message about 25 minutes ago saying hey ebay suspended my account because they think I accepted payment off ebay and asked if he could please reply to confirm I did not accept payment off ebay.  And to remind buyer I did not accept payment off ebay I attached screenshots of our transaction and our transcaction history in paypal showing ONLY that one payment and the one refund, NOTHING ELSE!

you can check my outgoing messages to username that starts with "lour" to confirm the authenticity of what I am telling you here...oh wait its letting me attach images, i remove identifying information from images using mspaint.  erased his last name and beginning of his email.

So why do I have to keep proving my innocence when I am innocent?  But more importantly HOW do I get my restriction removed?  This is becoming ridiculous.

[simplecellunlock]

@bubbleman2010

Keep in mind that I do not ask for contact information.  Buyer's give me contact information and I never request it.  Buyers even manipulate their contact information to get through the blocks..and yet I am being punished for it.  In every instance of them finding contact information there has ALWAYS been an order a few minutes later, where even though they gave me their contact information the buyer bought the item through ebay.

Why is the seller at fault if the buyer provides information without being asked?

[gramophone-georg]

---

@simplecellunlock wrote:

@gramophone-georg

Orders are starting to come in again.   It was busy all day, but the second that restriction message came in ALL orders stopped.  Then I just got 2 in a row about a minute ago, I think the restriction is removed since I am getting orders again and my items are apparently showing back up in search.

---

Well... cool, then. I don't mind at all being wrong when it's a happy ending!

How does this get fixed for good, though?

[simplecellunlock]

@gramophone-georg

In addition, I am able to make new listings again.  Awesome.  Looks like the supervisor actually did what he said he was going to do.

Right now, we're drawing attention to the issue.  When I am guilty of a policy violation I take the charge and don't complain.  When I am innocent, I sing so to speak.  Where else am I supposed to post to draw attention to issue of ebay negligence?  

Does ebay even care about us?

[emerald40]

Did they give you any advice on how you can avoid this for a third time?

[gramophone-georg]

---

@simplecellunlock wrote:

@gramophone-georg

In addition, I am able to make new listings again.  Awesome.  Looks like the supervisor actually did what he said he was going to do.

Right now, we're drawing attention to the issue.  When I am guilty of a policy violation I take the charge and don't complain.  When I am innocent, I sing so to speak.  Where else am I supposed to post to draw attention to issue of ebay negligence?  

Does ebay even care about us?

---

eBay cares about eBay.

[goodluckselling]

---

@simplecellunlock wrote:

I was dinged for "accepting payment outside ebay" even though I NEVER did.

Supervisor Daniel JUST cleared me!  2.5 hours on the phone and he came back and said, "you're right Sarah, wow, you're innocent again."

Take that ebay automated suspension algorithim!

However he personally cannot lift the restriction, he has to submit a request to have it lifted with his notes of his research BUT he notated my account that I was NOT guilty of all ebay charges levied against me.

sarah proving ebay wrong 2/2

ebay automation failing sellers also 2/2

CASE CLOSED!!!!

BUT there is another issue, why are sellers getting dinged like this when they're innocent?!?

---

if you are issuing these refunds without communication in the eBay message before you issue the refund, that is where your problem is.  Based on the screenshot you are also doing a complete refund on the same day as the payment is showing which says you can not even show a tracked delivery and eBay considers this as an out of stock transaction.

Good Luck Selling!

[simplecellunlock]

@emerald40

The supervisor told me that when contact information is shared both parties get dinged...and I have to call and clear myself of all charges if one of their reviewing agents erroneously marks me as guilty.  Being that I have been hit 3 times now, but cleared twice, I am thinking that they see my past records and assume guilt and do not bother to read that I am not actually committing policy violations.  They have some real winners over there in the dept that reviews this stuff.

Actually, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find out that the department that reviews the automated policy violation flags, is in another non-native english speaking country.  They don't know how to properly check the flow of messages to see in fact no policy was violated on behalf of seller.  In addition they probably do so many a day they don't bother to check to see if an order was actually placed.  All boils down to they just don't care enough about the seller.  They only want those fees.

on a side note, is what ebay doing legal?  if they actually catch someone avoiding fees, can they legally charge you a fee?

[d-k_treasures]

I guess the takeaway from this is to - as goodluckselling said - if you do a PP refund you now need to back it up with an ebay message.

Don't get their contact info until after they pay.

And you can't see if you have/how many policy violations. They took tht off of our dashboard many years ago. They don't WANT you to know.

[chrysylys]

---

@simplecellunlock wrote:

 I physically mail my buyers information pertaining to their issue. 

---

You need to do that ONLY and immediately STOP all the on-line interaction.

[imakesugar]

Problem is that You need to ask the Buyer to file an INR in the resolution center before You give a refund. Then give the refund so eBay can see a refund was given.  Giving the refund through Pay Pal also makes it loke like You are avoiding a defect for OOS. REMEMBER eBay no longer has the access to PP as they used to. 

Another thing is that even IF You won the cases you are still on some "AL" list for having violated before so "AL" is looking closer at Your account. 

eBay really needs to know that information has to be given to transactions such as this...either Sellers who sell a service and need to exchange information should have a way to do it legitimately. IF "AL" can't figure out these are Service Sales and information needs to be exchanged.

I would consider making a form Message to Buyers. Send the form Letter something like this. 

I will in no way enter into any Services OFF of eBay. The information exchanged is NOT exchanged to complete this sale off of eBay, but only to complete the services from Purchase Order XXXXXXX item numberXXXXX. The information I need You to send to me are:

Phone # I can text You with__________

THING#_____________

any other information You need in a form style like this...Make it easy for "AL" to read.

If I can not complete the service then I will have to refund through the Resolution Center due to eBay policy. Thank You, Your friendly Seller. 

The solution for eBay would be to spit out ALL the "Service-related" Messages (which should come from the Service sold page so it shows the service in the messages) and "Al" should skip over those for a human to look at. (of course that costs eBay money so it is probably NOT cost effective...)

I do NOT know if it is still an option but can a seller still ask for information about a Buyer? Maybe You have to do that every time You make a sale...Of course, that slows down the amount of money YOU can make waiting for contact information. 

The BIG problem is eBay needs to take a look at this and figure out how to keep legitimate "service" sales, where information needs to be exchanged, from getting Sellers  Suspended! The Seller and eBay are potentially losing money on future sales and has lost money on past sales. 

I think this is a pretty cool service by the way! I don't know how to do many things MY phone does! pam

[sandmansales]

I believe your 3rd suspension will be your last.

[odditiesandantiquities1]

Congratulations Sarah!!!! Finally someone broke through the wall and had a sensible person look at the issue and had it corrected.

Just the other day, I had a item out of stock defect lifted. It was completely and utterly one CS's fault and I was able to get it removed.  

I've been through a restriction that was so heavy handed it was unbelievable, but you have to keep trying and keep at it. The rules they are trying to enforce are to darn vague to be of any use to anyone.

[odditiesandantiquities1]

---

@simplecellunlock wrote:

@emerald40

The supervisor told me that when contact information is shared both parties get dinged...and I have to call and clear myself of all charges if one of their reviewing agents erroneously marks me as guilty.  Being that I have been hit 3 times now, but cleared twice, I am thinking that they see my past records and assume guilt and do not bother to read that I am not actually committing policy violations.  They have some real winners over there in the dept that reviews this stuff.

Actually, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find out that the department that reviews the automated policy violation flags, is in another non-native english speaking country.  They don't know how to properly check the flow of messages to see in fact no policy was violated on behalf of seller.  In addition they probably do so many a day they don't bother to check to see if an order was actually placed.  All boils down to they just don't care enough about the seller.  They only want those fees.

on a side note, is what ebay doing legal?  if they actually catch someone avoiding fees, can they legally charge you a fee?

---

I think one would have to spend the money to fight it to find out. Not sure how many want to spend those megabucks.

[brian@ebay]

---

@simplecellunlock wrote:

brian.t@ebay

sorry I tagged you directly but I do not know any other admins on here and you were involved last time so you are familiar with me being railroaded by ebay when I am innocent, and watched me prove my innocence last time...so here goes.

eBay is at it again and so close to the holidays!

I was handed down another restriction, this time a more serious one for 7 days...and again I am innocent.

Here is the email I received a few hours ago, sorry about delay in posting this but it took me hours to find the two incidents that ebay spoke of.  From the beginning;

Below are the details where the activity occurred:
182830976628 - SAMSUNG Galaxy S6/Note 5 FRP/Google Account Bypass Removal Service Android 6 & 7
182830896934 - UNLOCK SERVICE FOR SPRINT SAMSUNG GALAXY S8 G950U & S8+ G955U INSTANT!!!!!

 

=============================

I managed to track this down to 2 buyers, and what would you know?  Can you guess it even though I already said it?  Yep I am innocent.  

Let us start with the item # 182830896934 on Dec 12, 2017.

Buyer sent me message at 14:38 on 12/12/2017 providing Team Viewer connect information, I connected to buyer's PC...unlocked the 2 phones she had that I was capable of unlocking and then accepted payment.  

Why am I getting in trouble for this?  There is a very clear track record of buyer paying and placing 2 orders within 15-20 minutes of this message being sent!  

The only thing I can think of is her saying "i have 5 screens" but as you can see she said she only had 2 phones.  By 5 screens she meant 5 screens on her work computer to which I was connecting, and when I connected it was confusing getting everything I needed to work with, on the only screen team viewer let me see on my single monitor setup.  Still though, she clearly says 2 phones, and she paid for 2 items....

=====================================

now onto the next issue in the offending email which is item number 182830976628.

This one is very clear.  He had a new security phone in which I was unable to unlock and I refunded him.  The next day I came across a post in my phone unlocking forum that I thought would help me unlock his phone, so I reached out to him again, he said he still having issues,  and he provided me with his team viewer information.  I connected to his PC, failed to unlock phone, and we went along our seperate ways.  I NEVER ACCEPTED PAYMENT BECAUSE I FAILED TO UNLOCK PHONE!!!!   I REFUNDED BUYER!!!!!  I was not about to accept payment again, only to refund again if I failed.  I was doing service before payment.  I failed both attempts, so I did not charge buyer.  Simple as that.  

To prove I did not accept payment, I sent buyer a message about 25 minutes ago saying hey ebay suspended my account because they think I accepted payment off ebay and asked if he could please reply to confirm I did not accept payment off ebay.  And to remind buyer I did not accept payment off ebay I attached screenshots of our transaction and our transcaction history in paypal showing ONLY that one payment and the one refund, NOTHING ELSE!

you can check my outgoing messages to username that starts with "lour" to confirm the authenticity of what I am telling you here...oh wait its letting me attach images, i remove identifying information from images using mspaint.  erased his last name and beginning of his email.

So why do I have to keep proving my innocence when I am innocent?  But more importantly HOW do I get my restriction removed?  This is becoming ridiculous.

---

Hi @simplecellunlock, thanks for providing this example. I've forwarded it to the appropriate team to further review, particularly because the nature of the specialty services category can be very different from the rest of the eBay site. I'll be sure to update you here when I have more information.