Zero seller protection, payment dispute through PayPal (same company) favored buyer

[younggunzllc]

So for just getting into selling on eBay and selling $30,000 in 90 days with several hundred sells eBay will once again bite the hand that feeds them so to speak. That amounts to give or take $4200 in fees for them. Sold $250 optic, with SIGNATURE delivery to AEROPOST in Miami. Quick search appeared that is how people avoid taxes by getting their items shipped there. Not my business, well that was quickly regretted. About 2 Months later buyer messages and ask to give him return label and then re ship once I receive back to another Florida address due to CUSTOMS not allowing him to receive item. Customs wouldn’t be involved if delivering to Florida. If attempting to get optic out of country that would be a federal crime covered under “ITAR” Buyer files return request acknowledging delivery to address provided, which I denied due Timeframe and shady sound of illegal activity. Files payment dispute with PayPal and wins. eBay more or less says noting they can do. Moral of story, sell elsewhere and your not covered even if you have signature delivery and proof it was delivered. 

[younggunzllc]

Finally some actual engaging conversation. Thank you.....Did not receive was reason. I have been in managed eBay payments since that was a thing. When I appealed to eBay the girl said I would have to appeal to pp since that was form of payment and dispute, and went on with a bunch of legal garbage. In my eyes a sale is simple, maybe not. He buys which he did. I ship and it gets delivered to “his address” which is proven and he acknowledges, so it did. After that it’s not my problem unless it was broke or wrong which it wasnt. 

[younggunzllc]

Yep, yep,  and yep lol  So someone that wants to do some shady stuff will get there money back almost always with the chargeback or disputes. There are plenty of blogs and forms for all the sellers taking hits. You were almost all true lol but I must disagree, the insane seller fees feeds eBay so sellers run to other platforms or own websites stops the feeding of the fees. It’s an internet world out there, not just eBay.  It’s just hard to believe that I have shown to be a proven seller with the amount of sales I have done just testing the waters they wouldn’t try to work with sellers in a better fashion. Shows they don’t care. 

[younggunzllc]

It is absolutely about right. That is exactly what has happened. Money refunded from eBay to pp and to buyer and no item will be seen I’m sure. The kicker of it, in the appeal the girl more or less said they can do nothing, file with pp.  Yes dangerous. Anything over $200 I do signature for what I thought would be a no brainer win since it is required for disputes of i think 750 in the eBay terms. If your getting into selling anywhere, spend a fair amount of time reading about all the dirtbags that file chargebacks and payment disputes and you’ll realize it almost always favors buyer no matter what circumstances. 

[younggunzllc]

It is better for selling but buyers still have options for forms of payments including PayPal. It should be more simplified since eBay manages payments now it should be mandatory only eBay payment services including the buyers so for disputes it’s only one company involved, EBAY.

[dbfolks166mt]

    There are a lot of foreign buyers that use freight forwarders to get around sellers US only listing restrictions. I Google the shipping address for every item I sell and ship to make sure it is not an empty lot or a freight forwarder. I cancel sales for those buyers trying to circumvent the restrictions by selecting problem with buyers address. I then add them by my BBL. 

     There are a couple of things that do not add up here. The buyer stated customs would not allow him to receive the item so I am not sure what he/she is going to return to you but it is probably not the item customs seized. Does the tracking information actually show the item as being delivered or is it still in customs? If  customs seized it, as far as the buyer requesting you ship another one what makes the buyer think customs is going to allow the same item through the same check this time. 

     There is no federal crime being committed unless what you are shipping is contraband. The buyer pays the customs/import fees when the item arrives in their country which apparently they never did or customs seized the item since it is banned from importation by their country laws. There was another recent post on this forum about the eBay Global Shipping center seizing a shipment even before it left the US because importation of the item to that country was on their contraband list. That buyer also received a full refund and the item was not returned to the seller. 

[younggunzllc]

          Yes it all sounds shady as does any scam/ illegal communication normally does to make a seller go huh. I’ve seen it with items on Craigslist, armslist, and other places. That is why I thought days on the “return request” 2 months after signature delivery and denied. That alone  to me, he is acknowledging delivery to “his address” Aeropost,  asking for return. And then claims not received at 3 month mark with payment dispute. Was trying to keep it short with my original post and the whole shady part. He requested I pay for shipping back to me and then pay back to another address in Orlando which if reading dispute terms on eBay neither party can ask for something different than what’s in the stated original transaction, hence shipping back and forth at my expense to different address. Request to send him all info and no contact info for Aeropost. I’m not married to a transaction I held up my part of the deal and shipped to address on his eBay account. I have messages from him acknowledging all this, but communicating with eBay or pp is another story as many people have expressed.

         Using usps and shipping it signature delivery to 1 Aeropost way in Miami it shows signed delivered TO Aeropost which is his delivery address. Again held up my part of the deal. 
        For the illegal part. Under the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) it is a defense item and is prohibited from exporting out of our country. It is a firearm optic. 
        Summed up version. Ultimately I held up my part by delivering goods of a transaction. 2 months, not 2 days, ask for return with some shady illegal sounding request at my expense I have messages stating this. 3 months pp dispute and money returned.

[lacemaker3]

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@younggunzllc wrote:

So for just getting into selling on eBay and selling $30,000 in 90 days with several hundred sells eBay will once again bite the hand that feeds them so to speak. That amounts to give or take $4200 in fees for them. Sold $250 optic, with SIGNATURE delivery to AEROPOST in Miami. Quick search appeared that is how people avoid taxes by getting their items shipped there. Not my business, well that was quickly regretted. About 2 Months later buyer messages and ask to give him return label and then re ship once I receive back to another Florida address due to CUSTOMS not allowing him to receive item. Customs wouldn’t be involved if delivering to Florida. If attempting to get optic out of country that would be a federal crime covered under “ITAR” Buyer files return request acknowledging delivery to address provided, which I denied due Timeframe and shady sound of illegal activity. Files payment dispute with PayPal and wins. eBay more or less says noting they can do. Moral of story, sell elsewhere and your not covered even if you have signature delivery and proof it was delivered. 

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@younggunzllc, I see that you are selling gun parts, and by eBay policy as well as federal law, they can't be shipped out of the country. You're quite correct about that, but it wasn't immediately obvious from your post. My first guess for "optic" was high-end binoculars, which wouldn't have been restricted.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/firearms-weapons-knives-policy?id=427...

Two months ago, there would not have been any sales tax collected for a shipment to Florida, but that's not why people use freight forwarders. The fee for the forwarder is probably  more than the sales tax would have been. They use freight forwarders to have items delivered outside the country.

Since your items can't be shipped outside the country, you should have cancelled the transaction with the reason "problem with buyer's address". Yes, it's inconvenient that you would have had to do that, but that's the way it is when you sell items that can't be shipped out of the country. With most items, there's no issue.

With a PayPal dispute, you have to respond to the dispute within their time limit, or it will be automatically decided in the buyer's favor. It sounds like that's what happened here. You say you don't know what kind of PayPal dispute was filed. In the circumstances you described, it sounds like the buyer would have filed an Item Not Received case. All you would have needed to do was to provide proof that the package was delivered to the address on the order details, and you would have won the PayPal case.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#seller-protection

[donsdetour]

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@younggunzllc wrote:

International sells? My listings due to “military items” (ITAR) restricted from international shipping is U.S. listed only. I wish it would auto cancel freight forwarders. When clicking on his profile it does say based in U.S.

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Pull the contact information: may be a hijacked account..

[dbfolks166mt]

      Thanks for some clarity on the ITAR issue his attempt to import the item is on him/her and the violation. I am guessing customs seized the items or it never left Aeropost in Miami. You may want to check with Aeropost to see if they even forwarded the item. If they were doing there job and knew the laws of what ever country the buyer lives in they may have never forwarded it. 

      This is the problem with signature deliver and freight forwarders your USPS signature delivery comes from the freight forwarder not the buyer. Yes you did your part and according to the eBay MBG and delivery policy the buyer is NOT covered under the MBG when they use a freight forwarder. For sure a case I would appeal to eBay

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy... 

[coindexter1]

i was told you cant sell without managed payments..... how are "some of us not" in managed payments?...

[bonjourami]

Op is in mp...buyers can still use PP.

[younggunzllc]

I’m in that. Buyers can still pay however they wish and then chargeback. Simplify the whole process if eBay took control of the seller side of it also

[younggunzllc]

Meant took control of “ buyer” side

[wesk_36]

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@younggunzllc wrote:

So for just getting into selling on eBay and selling $30,000 in 90 days with several hundred sells eBay will once again bite the hand that feeds them so to speak. That amounts to give or take $4200 in fees for them. Sold $250 optic, with SIGNATURE delivery to AEROPOST in Miami. Quick search appeared that is how people avoid taxes by getting their items shipped there. Not my business, well that was quickly regretted. About 2 Months later buyer messages and ask to give him return label and then re ship once I receive back to another Florida address due to CUSTOMS not allowing him to receive item. Customs wouldn’t be involved if delivering to Florida. If attempting to get optic out of country that would be a federal crime covered under “ITAR” Buyer files return request acknowledging delivery to address provided, which I denied due Timeframe and shady sound of illegal activity. Files payment dispute with PayPal and wins. eBay more or less says noting they can do. Moral of story, sell elsewhere and your not covered even if you have signature delivery and proof it was delivered. 

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I sell coins and some countries do not allow the importation on certain coins, metals, so I don't sell internationally although I will consider it if the buyer contacts me and asks, depending on the country. When getting a sale from an occasional buyer from an area outside the USA using a re-shipper, I cancel the sale as "problem with address", because it is.

The key is recognizing that the address is a re-shipper, which is actually very easy to do when you look into it. Sometimes the names are a giveaway, like "AEROPOST" or certain areas like Delaware. I use google maps to identify re-shippers.

It saves a lot of trouble to avoid re-shippers.

I don't know anything about your tax theory though and it's a moot point anyway.

[dbfolks166mt]

     In reality eBay is the financial processor only on the surface. Adyen is the behind the scenes third party processor just like PayPal was for the sellers prior to managed payments.