Writing this because many seem to not understand this very important Ebay rule (3rd party shipping)

[imac7065]

One of the biggest issues on Ebay is customers using a "freight forwarding company" (IE a drop shipper) or "3rd party" to received their items.....

I need all sellers to understand.. your customer is voiding their Ebay money back guarantee protections when they ask to ship ANYWHERE other than the address verified on their account....

The frustration on this occurs when a case is open, the Ebay AI doesn't know the ToS rules of 3rd party shipping, and will still find in the buyers favor on any INAD or not received cases. Please, for the sake of your business.. call Ebay in these circumstances and show them what I am about to show you below.. the seller is not required to fulfill any form of refund or return on an item that was not sent to the physical address of the buyer. Period.

Here is the source of what I am saying for everyone to review:

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

Why am I writing this? I am watching people on other threads give completely wrong advice to people stuck in this exact situation. They shipped an item, it didn't say delivered.. Ebay AI sided with the buyer, seller found out a 3rd party received the merchandise, and they lost $300.... people are replying to that seller telling them they were SoL... they were not. They just needed to know their own protections.

PS... please do not use this information to deceive or con your customers.. this is in place to protect sellers, not to be abused.

[femmefan1946]

It still gets muddy as to whether the seller has to prove that the item was forwarded to Portugal, and how to do that,

Not really.

Because the seller, even one with a No Returns policy, is allowed to demand the return of the disputed item before refunding.

The Return Shipping Label the seller then buys is sent to the address of the forwarder.

The logistics of getting the disputed item back to the forwarder and persuading the forwarder to use the label would very likely kill the dispute on time if nothing else.

Forwarding companies would want to be paid for that extra service, if they will cooperate at all.

It's a game and the seller has a few extra cards.

[stephenmorgan]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@inhawaii wrote:

What is the difference if a seller ships to the house that I live in at 1234 Main Street, Anytown, USA  -or-  to my freight forwarder at 1234 Main Street, Anytown, USA, who will in turn send it to me in Portugal? 

As long as the tracking shows it was delivered to the US address, isn't each scenario the same thing?

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For an Item Not Received dispute, both are the same thing; yes. For a Not As Described dispute, a buyer residing at the delivery address would be covered under the MBG; a buyer who had his purchase forwarded to him in Portugal from the delivery address in the US would not.

It still gets muddy as to whether the seller has to prove that the item was forwarded to Portugal, and how to do that, but the point is that the type of dispute has a bearing on how it can be resolved.

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Normally but not always, when a item is going to a International Freight Forwarder I can tell because I am charged the International Fee by eBay.  If I see the International Fee then I will check the Location of the Buyer. 

If their Location is international then after I mail the item I will send them a message stating item is mailed, give them the tracking number and ask if they are at the US address to accept the item or if it will be forwarded to them in their country registered on eBay.  Asking before item is mailed people are hesitant to reply but asking after it is mailed I have always received a reply.  This is my proof that a freight forwarder was used.

[albertabrightalberta]

Starting a new thread that rehashes everything that was discussed, disputed and corrected in a previous one isn't going to change the policy. 

In this post: 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/A-refunded-300-laptop-was-delivered-buyer-ignores-my-messages/...

And in this one: 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/A-refunded-300-laptop-was-delivered-buyer-ignores-my-messages/...

kyle@ebay explained that sellers do NOT lose protection as long as tracking shows delivery to the shipping address on the order, being it a home address or a freight forwarder.......

AND 

buyers do NOT lose their MBG even if item is shipped to an address that isn't (what used to be referred to as) the "confirmed address." 

[retro_entertainment_collectibles]

Many folks use international freight forwarding and that's why when eBay automagically enrolled in the new international shipping program I was ok with it.  Now I ship items to eBay.  Sure, folks can still use a forwarded but most that I've dealt with who did now use eBay's international program.

[a_c_green]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

It still gets muddy as to whether the seller has to prove that the item was forwarded to Portugal, and how to do that,

Not really.

Because the seller, even one with a No Returns policy, is allowed to demand the return of the disputed item before refunding.

The Return Shipping Label the seller then buys is sent to the address of the forwarder.

The logistics of getting the disputed item back to the forwarder and persuading the forwarder to use the label would very likely kill the dispute on time if nothing else.

Forwarding companies would want to be paid for that extra service, if they will cooperate at all.

It's a game and the seller has a few extra cards.

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Right; the "muddy" situation I was referring to was if the seller wants to dig in his heels, refuse the return, and state that the MBG doesn't apply if the item was forwarded after its original delivery.

While it's true that the MBG is said to not apply in that circumstance, and it's easy to find that exception spelled out in print (here: "Not covered: The buyer used third-party freight forwarding or mail redirection"), how to actually prove it was forwarded (as opposed to Trinton of eBay and his tortured explanation that someone at the forwarder might have bought the item for himself) is where things get sticky. I don't recall that eBay ever explained in detail what proof they expected the seller to provide.

But, yes, the seller can certainly ask for the return of the item first, and make the buyer scramble to send it back from Portugal to the address to which he originally had it shipped.

[downunder-61]

This is a very dangerous, misinformed and totally incorrect post for new seller's (and buyer's for that matter) to be reading. If I were you I would ask for it to be removed.

@imac7065 

[slippinjimmy]

Appropriate for this thread.....

[albertabrightalberta]

How about this one. 

[downunder-61]

Personally, this s my all time fave........

😋

I can explain it to you but I can’t understand it for you.

[kensgiftshop]

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@albertabrightalberta wrote:

Starting a new thread that rehashes everything that was discussed, disputed and corrected in a previous one isn't going to change the policy. 

In this post: 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/A-refunded-300-laptop-was-delivered-buyer-ignores-my-messages/...

And in this one: 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/A-refunded-300-laptop-was-delivered-buyer-ignores-my-messages/...

kyle@ebay explained that sellers do NOT lose protection as long as tracking shows delivery to the shipping address on the order, being it a home address or a freight forwarder.......

AND 

buyers do NOT lose their MBG even if item is shipped to an address that isn't (what used to be referred to as) the "confirmed address." 

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He doesn't think Kyle is right or even an Ebay employee and want's to have him retrained if he is. 😀

[jerseyboymusic]

Here's how I have always understood freight forwarding transactions... I've never had an issue...

Buyer buys an item and has it shipped to a FF (let's say one that has the initials SAA)

I ship to SAA in a state here in the USA

Item shows delivered to SAA

I'm covered.. get positive feedback.

From there, if the buyer in another country says they don't have the item (in a month or so)... that's not my issue since I delivered to SAA.

Am I wrong now?

[kensgiftshop]

As long as tracking shows it was delivered to the freight forwarder, you're supposed to be covered.

What happens after it's forwarded from there is between the buyer and freight forwarder.

[luckythewinner]

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I need all sellers to understand.. your customer is voiding their Ebay money back guarantee protections when they ask to ship ANYWHERE other than the address verified on their account

This is not true.

I am watching people on other threads give completely wrong advice to people stuck in this exact situation. They shipped an item, it didn't say delivered.. Ebay AI sided with the buyer, seller found out a 3rd party received the merchandise, and they lost $300.... people are replying to that seller telling them they were SoL... they were not. They just needed to know their own protections.

The situation you describe - "it didn't say delivered" - is an Item Not Received dispute, not a Money Back Guarantee dispute. You are conflating the two.

In the case you describe, (a) the buyer does not lose his protection from non-delivery, and (b) a seller is not protected from that non-delivery dispute. 

[a_c_green]

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@jerseyboymusic wrote:

Here's how I have always understood freight forwarding transactions... I've never had an issue...

Buyer buys an item and has it shipped to a FF (let's say one that has the initials SAA)

I ship to SAA in a state here in the USA

Item shows delivered to SAA

I'm covered.. get positive feedback.

From there, if the buyer in another country says they don't have the item (in a month or so)... that's not my issue since I delivered to SAA.

Am I wrong now?

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Technically yes, you're wrong. 😁 Wait! Come back here!

Your description of the process is correct; the only nitpick I'm offering here is that SAA themselves (I mean specifically SAA, I know who we're talking about) are not freight forwarders; SAA is the eBay buyer, with their own eBay account. They buy your items using their own account, and then send the package on to their customers. (They've been doing this for, what, decades now, and if you have not sold something to them over the years, you will sooner or later.)

SAA is not a reshipping service that is hired by offshore eBay customers who are making their own purchases with their own offshore eBay accounts, to take delivery of their packages at a U.S. eBay Ship-To: address and then send them on from there to the eBay recipient, as a typical freight forwarder does.

[sdneped]

From the other thread.

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@imac7065 wrote:

@sdneped yes... dozens of people are lying... dozens of customers lost their case... and everyone is wrong... because you know better. (more common sense from the group here?)

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@imac7065 wrote:

@kensgiftshop to answer you directly.. I was just alerted the MSO department is reaching to to  A ) confirm kyle is an actual ebay employee and not some sort of forum volunteer and B ) have him retrained to confirm that the information I have been providing is correct.... 

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Guess we have you to thank, for exposing the MSO at eBay, a rotten core which continued to mislead you just so they can keep charging you $300 a month. So THANK YOU @imac7065! as eBay does its house-cleaning.