eBay

christworks · ‎11-09-2023

Recently I made a purchase which included multiple items of the same product. A few hours after I paid, the seller called me on the telephone and informed me they did not have all the items to send. The seller stated they had miscounted, and also needed to keep some of the product they did have for themselves. The seller asked if I wanted the order cancelled. Of course, I wanted the order cancelled. Did the seller expect me to say, "No, you just keep my money"?

I told the seller I would not leave negative feedback. That said, when the seller cancelled the order, instead of owning the mistake and taking the hit, they selected that I wanted the order cancelled. I then realized that the reason why the seller called me was to avoid the hit on their account. I found the action sneaky and underhanded.

I used to sell on eBay years ago, and recently returned to selling earlier this year. I completely understand how mistakes happen from time to time. I made a made an error and miscounted how many items I had of a certain product. When the last one sold, I realized I did not have it. I cancelled the order, issued a refund, and apologized to the buyer. My account took a hit, but that was fine because I was in the wrong. It motivated me to do better and ensure I have everything I list in stock.

In my case as the buyer, I kept my word and did not leave negative feedback. I did leave neutral feedback because I did not appreciate the seller's tactics. Afterward, the seller officially asked me to revise the feedback, stating they called eBay and was told it was okay that they called me. I reached out to eBay through chat. They confirmed to me exactly what I recalled from having sold previously: Sellers should only call buyers in very limited circumstances; such as, if the purchase is a local pick-up or in cases where a vehicle is being sold. Ebay advised me to report the seller though my account so they can take action against them. I am hesitant to do that because I feel that is too harsh. The seller has sold well over 5,000 items, so they are not new at this.

Am I being too harsh? Am I not being harsh enough? I feel like the neutral feedback I left is more than fair. Notably, the seller did not leave me feedback. They seem to only be concerned about their own.

gurlcat · ‎11-10-2023

I don't see what he did as "slimy." Now that I have all the pertinent information, I think what he did was desperate, and that is because the scenario of realizing too late you don't have what someone ordered (or can't find it, or accidentally damaged it while packing, etc.) is one of the rock and hard place positions anyone can find themselves in, because of eBay's policies and because of how petty some buyers are.

Maybe he was one OOS strike away from being demoted to Below Standard, after only a couple of other misfortunes in the past year. If he sells replenishables that could happen oh-so easily. And yeah he feared a negative feedback too. Who doesn't? -You say you would have been fine with him doing X, Y and Z, but he had no way of knowing that -some buyers would throw a hissy fit over nothing. And chances are the hissy-fitters would be buying-only members, not sellers, so they wouldn't even notice what reason was selected for the cancelation, or know what difference it makes. Clearly this seller was worried about you being a hissy-fitter, more than he worried about whether you might know more than the average buyer. He didn't lie to you, in fact if anything he was honest to his own detriment, by admitting he wanted to keep some quantity of envelopes for himself.

As someone who buys here almost as much as I sell, I can put myself in your exact position, and here's what I see. -A seller who contacted me "a few hours" after my purchase. WOW! That means he LEAPT to fulfill my order immediately. You know what I can't stand? A seller who stalls to ship for days, especially if it's a replenishable that I really need. And if it was days after I ordered before they informed me they didn't have the item, okay then I would be mad for sure. But immediate notification -that would enable me to find another source immediately. As for the part about the phone call, it's really unclear how you feel about that. One thing you didn't state is what his tone was like, and did he say "I'm so sorry, but ..." You did say in this last reply that you would have been fine with him cancelling "properly" and then calling to apologize. -So being contacted by phone, in and of itself, is not the issue. It's the fact that he did it as a tactic to get you to cancel, without digital evidence that it's what he did.

Okay, I guess that could warrant a neutral, but that's it. Reporting him would just be vindictive for no reason. His menu reason for cancelling doesn't affect you whatsoever. There are also a bazillion other padded envelope slingers to buy from, and you were notified almost immediately that you needed to do exactly that. Honestly, as many times as I've sat and watched day after day go by with no tracking number for stuff I needed fast, I am jealous of how "slimy" this guy was to you.

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mam98031 · ‎11-09-2023

Dang this seller is just literally lying to you at every turn. I am so sorry this happened to you. What it really scary is this seller seems to have this script down. That tells me this isn't the first time they have done this to buyers.

BTW you are exactly right, they wanted to avoid getting a defect on their account for being OOS [out of stock]. HOWEVER, they are not as clever as they think they are. The verbal confirmation from you to just go ahead and cancel the transaction is not going to hold water with Ebay if challenged. And Ebay is cracking down on sellers that abuse the Cancellation system.

If you are willing to put a little more time into this, I advise two things. First Report the seller for ABUSE of the cancellation system.

https://www.ebay.com/help/action?topicid=4022

Then I would personally spend the time with contacting Ebay and reporting this sellers for everything they did. Lie after lie. Heck you could do this through Social Media and copy and paste what you wrote here. Well you might have to shorten it.

Here are your options for contacting Ebay Customer Service. Please be aware that for social media CS, you send them a Private Message and briefly explain what your problem or issue is. Feel free to leave your Name, address, phone number and/or your email address in this message. It is private and secure and it may help to speed up the response for you.

https://twitter.com/askebay

https://www.facebook.com/eBay/

https://www.instagram.com/ebayforsellers/

Your options will be on the left. If you use the link below you can only get to the Automated Assistant or Chat box type AGENT in the box and hit enter. You will then get more options. Not all options are available 24/7. It will depend on staffing available. So sometimes you can request a call back and sometimes you can't. Sometimes you have the Chat option available and other times it won't me. If it is important to you to use one of those options, just try back later.

If you use a cell phone or other mobile device, you may need to turn off your Spam filter so that Ebay can call you.

If you are a seller outside of the US or Canada, you will need to use the Chat Option.

https://www.ebay.com/help/home

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

luckythewinner · ‎11-09-2023

By telling the seller you wanted to cancel, you gave him the wiggle room to avoid a damaging "Out of Stock" defect.

The fact that he did it over the phone really makes no difference at all.

lakefor94 · ‎11-09-2023

In would not waste any time trying to hold the seller accountable for a account defect as you could cost them a lot of money in the long run. Doubt that investing the time would change anything.

There is really nothing appreciable to obtain, imo.

Posting ID

mam98031 · ‎11-09-2023

And that is exactly how bad actors, whether buyers or sellers continue to get away with their bad behavior IMHO. No one holds them accountable.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

ajs_coins_and_alchemy · ‎11-09-2023

Okay, so I totally see what the seller did, and wanted you to ask for cancellation...

However, i would turn around and say, if it were me, I wouldnt have called, I would have wanted it in WRITING that the buyer requested cancellation. To me, the seller gained that wiggle room but has no record of it!

I have wanted to ask the question, "When is it acceptable to call on the phone" for a long time now. Ive had 2 differrent sellers call me, Ive never called a buyer, although I have wanted to once or twice... Both times sellers called me were basically situations where I found it appropriate because.... simply put, in our every day lives, there are times where a text works and times where a call is needed, this was that type of situation where discussing via messages would be too tough and over the phone was easier... (Usually LEGIT problems with EBay and EBay's system, so discussing and coming to agreement on how to proceed).

One of the phone calls worked very well to both of our favor for ... additional reasons. Glad that person called me.

Either way, I only RECENTLY found out the main reason for phone numbers provided... its for FedEx/UPS shipping? Is that correct? That makes sense I suppose. I always found it odd for ecommerce to include phone numbers. Hmm... I would feel weird as a seller calling a buyer. Dont want to creep the buyer out... as a seller myself I don't mind a seller calling me (when I'm acting as a buyer) because I'm more open-eyed about EBay and don't mind having more direct/open conversations and relationships with other sellers. There are a lot of sellers I've bought from many times and a lot of those I've purchased thousands and thousands of dollars from ... so relationship goes a long way.

lakefor94 · ‎11-09-2023

@mam98031 wrote:
And that is exactly how bad actors, whether buyers or sellers continue to get away with their bad behavior IMHO. No one holds them accountable.

I would not lump that seller in with the "bad actors". The seller had the guts to contact the buyer, explain the situation, ask for forgiveness, yada yada. So, he skipped out on shooting himself in the foot. He took care of the buyer the best he could. Most just cancel with "buyer asked to cancel" without even a message to the buyer. That is what we see continually in feedback. Calling shows concern for the customer whether the seller used it to his advantage or not.

Bad actor is a term I reserve for scammers, theives and the like. Personal preference in terms I would suppose....

I call customers now and then. Yesterday as matter in fact. Shipping via RL Carriers. Freight. Have to make sure there is someone at their office to receive shipment and access needs for delivery since Streetview showed no dock. Delivered today 5:29pm. Happy customer.

Posting ID

gurlcat · ‎11-09-2023

Here's something I don't know. Does it harm a buyer when the seller cancels upon buyer request (legit or not)? If so, how? Is it anywhere near as grave as an OOS strike for a seller? To my knowledge that's the least-tolerated seller behavior, apart from outright scammy or abusive acts. I've always felt it's something that eBay is a bit TOO harsh about, to where an otherwise honest seller may feel they have to resort to dishonestly reporting the reason, after only a couple other times in the previous year. Part of the reason I stay so 'small' is wariness of losing track of my inventory. Just yesterday I was looking through it (physically) and found 5 things I had either photographed but forgot to list, or ended the listings but didn't move the items to dead stock.

12345jamesstamps · ‎11-09-2023

Seller should refund immediately and email buyer about the mistake which I would do. I also offer something free for "my" mistake and it's usually a higher priced item. I think the seller should correct their mistake...not by a phone call. I have never gotten a phone call from a buyer or seller. Not very businesslike.

I try not to leave negative or neutral feedback to anyone. I haven't in a very very long time.

I would just move on and respond no more to this buyer....and don't buy from him anymore.

And leave the feedback as is. Not very professional...considering all the items they sell and not even trying to do a replacement for item(s) not in stock with a refund. I hate greedy sellers.

stephenmorgan · ‎11-09-2023

@christworks wrote:

Am I being too harsh? Am I not being harsh enough? I feel like the neutral feedback I left is more than fair. Notably, the seller did not leave me feedback. They seem to only be concerned about their own.

Was this for the Padded Bubble Envelopes?

I would without question forget about it and move on. The fact that they lost the sale and receive a netural Feedback is as far as I would have taken it.

What would Christ do?

stephenmorgan · ‎11-09-2023

@gurlcat wrote:
Here's something I don't know. Does it harm a buyer when the seller cancels upon buyer request (legit or not)? If so, how? Is it anywhere near as grave as an OOS strike for a seller? To my knowledge that's the least-tolerated seller behavior, apart from outright scammy or abusive acts. I've always felt it's something that eBay is a bit TOO harsh about, to where an otherwise honest seller may feel they have to resort to dishonestly reporting the reason, after only a couple other times in the previous year. Part of the reason I stay so 'small' is wariness of losing track of my inventory. Just yesterday I was looking through it (physically) and found 5 things I had either photographed but forgot to list, or ended the listings but didn't move the items to dead stock.

There are an occassional post where someone was banned from selling and occasionally someone may be banned from all activity. I have never seen any posts about a buyer being banned because they have requested too many cancellations.

To be honest I am not sure that a buyer requesting to cancel an order is a grave policy violation with eBay. It is like the Auctions where you have a person who has hundreds of Bid Retractions. They are still allowed to bid even though they have not followed policy with their hundreds of Bid Retractions. It would seem as though the policy is more of a guideline than a actual enforceable policy.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/rules-policies-buyers/invalid-bid-retraction-policy?id=4227

If someone makes a bid on an auction-style listing, and then retracts that bid, they could gain an unfair advantage – maybe by discovering a reserve price, or where another bidder's maximum bid stands.

We want to ensure a fair marketplace for all our users, so we only allow bids to be retracted under certain circumstances. Read our full Invalid bid retraction policy below for more details.

reallynicestamps · ‎11-09-2023

The seller asked if I wanted the order cancelled. Of course, I wanted the order cancelled...That said, when the seller cancelled the order, ... they selected that I wanted the order cancelled.

So you agreed to cancel the order and the seller told eBay you agreed to cancel the order.

What's the problem?

The seller stated they had miscounted,

Well that happens.

and also needed to keep some of the product they did have for themselves.

This is a weak excuse.

When you mess up, you take the hit and sell even the one you wanted to keep.

That is where the seller lost my sympathy.

albertabrightalberta · ‎11-09-2023

@reallynicestamps wrote:
The seller asked if I wanted the order cancelled. Of course, I wanted the order cancelled...That said, when the seller cancelled the order, ... they selected that I wanted the order cancelled.

So you agreed to cancel the order and the seller told eBay you agreed to cancel the order.
What's the problem?

The buyer agreed to the cancellation because they didn't want to have paid $59.99 for nothing and didn't realize that they could (or should) tell the seller to "send me what you have and issue a prorated refund."

And in fact, what really think the seller should have done is to apologize profusely for not being able to fully fulfill the order, tell the buyer they only have x-number of envelopes and they'll send what they have as well as issue a FULL refund.

(I made a similar mistake in the past and although any profit on that item was obviously lost, it's a mistake I never made again!)

Had the seller done that, I bet she'd have received glowing feedback and wouldn't have to compound each lie with another!

albertabrightalberta
Volunteer Community Mentor

mam98031 · ‎11-09-2023

@lakefor94 wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
And that is exactly how bad actors, whether buyers or sellers continue to get away with their bad behavior IMHO. No one holds them accountable.
I would not lump that seller in with the "bad actors". The seller had the guts to contact the buyer, explain the situation, ask for forgiveness, yada yada. So, he skipped out on shooting himself in the foot. He took care of the buyer the best he could. Most just cancel with "buyer asked to cancel" without even a message to the buyer. That is what we see continually in feedback. Calling shows concern for the customer whether the seller used it to his advantage or not.

Bad actor is a term I reserve for scammers, theives and the like. Personal preference in terms I would suppose....

I call customers now and then. Yesterday as matter in fact. Shipping via RL Carriers. Freight. Have to make sure there is someone at their office to receive shipment and access needs for delivery since Streetview showed no dock. Delivered today 5:29pm. Happy customer.

Or the seller didn't want any written record [messages] with the buyer with them explaining this to the buyer and then ask them if they wanted to cancel. The buyer was not happy, the OP left them neutral FB.

This seller was trying to get around the rules and protect themselves. It is fine that you see it differently.

I'm with you, there has been occasions where I've found the need to call a buyer. But I have never done it for the reasons the seller in this particular case did.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

mam98031 · ‎11-09-2023

@gurlcat wrote:
Here's something I don't know. Does it harm a buyer when the seller cancels upon buyer request (legit or not)? If so, how? Is it anywhere near as grave as an OOS strike for a seller? To my knowledge that's the least-tolerated seller behavior, apart from outright scammy or abusive acts. I've always felt it's something that eBay is a bit TOO harsh about, to where an otherwise honest seller may feel they have to resort to dishonestly reporting the reason, after only a couple other times in the previous year. Part of the reason I stay so 'small' is wariness of losing track of my inventory. Just yesterday I was looking through it (physically) and found 5 things I had either photographed but forgot to list, or ended the listings but didn't move the items to dead stock.

No it does not harm the buyer in any way. Until or when Ebay decides to change the rules and track buyer requested cancellations. They could do that at any time and as sellers know all too well, it could be retroactive. But honestly I don't see this happening, I'm just saying it.

What it does is protect the Seller's stats from additional defects.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999