What would you do?

[inhawaii]

I sold a $90 item (one of the most expensive items i sell) on 2-20-23.

This was a repeat buyer.  He had purchased one from me about a month ago.

On 3-12-23 the buyer opened a INR.

I immediately responded to the case and uploaded the  tracking number.

The tracking was odd.  It did not show "delivered".

Instead it showed "deliver to agent for final delivery".

I did some research on the boards and found that per devon from ebay, I am covered in a INR.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Shipping/eBay-not-recognizing-quot-Delivered-to-Agent-for-Final-Delive...

The case is still  open and the tracking  hasn't changed.

I forgot to block this buyer!!!

Tonight he buys another one.

The optimistic me is thinking ... he must have received the 2nd one and is now buying a 3rd one.

He's a good repeat customer.

The suspicious me is thinking ... don't got through with this 3rd purchase. 

I'm asking for trouble. 

What do I do?  What would you do?

Perhaps What do I do?  What would you do?

Perhaps devon@ebay can chime in with advice.

[stainlessenginecovers]

That is a Freight Fowarder. Have you messaged the buyer asking 'what's going on'?? Can't hurt; if no response, cancel reason of address and block. 

[devon@ebay]

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@inhawaii wrote:

I sold a $90 item (one of the most expensive items i sell) on 2-20-23.

This was a repeat buyer.  He had purchased one from me about a month ago.

On 3-12-23 the buyer opened a INR.

I immediately responded to the case and uploaded the  tracking number.

The tracking was odd.  It did not show "delivered".

Instead it showed "deliver to agent for final delivery".

I did some research on the boards and found that per devon from ebay, I am covered in a INR.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Shipping/eBay-not-recognizing-quot-Delivered-to-Agent-for-Final-Delive...

The case is still  open and the tracking  hasn't changed.

I forgot to block this buyer!!!

Tonight he buys another one.

The optimistic me is thinking ... he must have received the 2nd one and is now buying a 3rd one.

He's a good repeat customer.

The suspicious me is thinking ... don't got through with this 3rd purchase. 

I'm asking for trouble. 

What do I do?  What would you do?

Perhaps What do I do?  What would you do?

Perhaps devon@ebay can chime in with advice.

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Hey @inhawaii! For the first transaction just as you called out you would be covered in a potential INR case. For the most recent orders I would recommend to reach out to the buyer and see if they are aware of what address they are using for the orders as far as if they are being delivered. If you have not blocked them yet and you are having to ship out these to stay within your handle by window you of course would be covered as the seller for any other potential INR's. If you choose to cancel the most recent orders just be aware that depending on how you cancel them that it could cause defects to your account. 

[farmalljr]

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@varebelrose wrote:

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@farmalljr wrote:..No real reason for buyers to use freight forwarders anymore, since eBay offers international shipping, other than to find a way to get "free" stuff.  There may be a few good reasons why they would use a forwarder, but the scams all seem to come from forwarders.

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There is a very good reason many international buyers use forwarders; the fact is that many US sellers opt to NOT sell internationally at all; the use of a FF allows buyers to purchase items from those sellers. It does not mean its a scam.

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If a seller is opting to NOT sell at all, that should be the end of it. Going around the system shouldn't be allowed, at all. Sellers that do things like that, lose their accounts. 

Again, no real good reason for FF'ers at this point. Most of the international scams are all run when using FF'ers. I would be very suspicious of this buyer because they have a case opened and ordered another product. The first thing I would do is block them. 

A seller certainly should HAVE a choice in participating in international sales. It's our inventory and WE are assuming ALL of the risks. If I don't want to have to worry about problems with international sales, then I should not be FORCED to. eBay offers a way for buyers to buy internationally, without the use of FF'ers. Again, NO real good reason for them. Other than a loophole to run scams on unsuspecting sellers. There are other means to get something shipped internationally, that offers the seller at least a little more protection. 

[reallynicestamps]

Have you looked at the address on Google Maps?

Is it a reshipper in a strip mall?

Is it the buyer's name always the same or just the address?

Because delivery to a freight forwarder is delivery. If the forwarder is not prompt about reshipping that's not your problem.

One problem that sellers make for themselves is that a decent freight forwarder has hundreds if not thousands of customers, and no matter how carefully the forwarder runs their business, the odd crook will be there to take advantage, leading to bad Google reviews from uncomprehending sellers.

[inhawaii]

I a little more researched all 3 sales.

#1) Shipped to ebay's old GSP address in Erlanger KY.

#) Shipped to what appears to be a freight forwarder in Wilmington DE.

#3) Has ebay's EIS address in Glendale Heights, IL.

The buyer is  in South Korea.

The story seems somewhat plausible.

The 1st order he went with GSP.

The 2nd order he went with a freight forwarder where he may have had some problem getting the item.

The 3rd order he went with EIS.

I did reach out to the buyer, but don't expect to hear back from him within my 1-day shipping window.

I'm going to go ahead and ship the 3rd one.  As they say in Hawaii   "Chance 'em".

If I lose $90 I will start a go fund me account.

I'm sure my generous fellow ebay sellers can scrape up $90.   😉

Thanks for all your advice!

[sakic92710]

As long as you don't mind waiting 3 months for my 'go fund me' donation., I might get $23 in sales by then.

[buyselljack2016]

devon says eBay has your back. The "go fund me" will not be needed 🤣

[varebelrose]

"A seller certainly should HAVE a choice in participating in international sales. It's our inventory and WE are assuming ALL of the risks. If I don't want to have to worry about problems with international sales, then I should not be FORCED to. eBay offers a way for buyers to buy internationally, without the use of FF'ers. Again, NO real good reason for them. Other than a loophole to run scams on unsuspecting sellers. There are other means to get something shipped internationally, that offers the seller at least a little more protection. "

Again, many sellers do not want to ship internationally, and thats fine. I certainly did not in the last 3-4 years we were actively selling here. But there are international buyers who want items those sellers have. And  shipment to a freight forwarder is NOT international, it is to a domestic address, and once the package is delivered to the FF, the seller is good to go. I had many, many successful sales to buyers who used them, and would wager the majority of sellers here have as well, whether they even realized it or not. Its not the cesspool of scams that you seem to be painting it as.

[sticker*pimp]

Actually, yes there is.  I have a house in the Caribbean.  Water access only.  There is no Postal service here.  I have to use a freight forwarder in Florida to get packages to me.  They have a depot on one of the main islands.  Usually take 4 days to receive after it arrives in Florida. 

[farmalljr]

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@varebelrose wrote:

"A seller certainly should HAVE a choice in participating in international sales. It's our inventory and WE are assuming ALL of the risks. If I don't want to have to worry about problems with international sales, then I should not be FORCED to. eBay offers a way for buyers to buy internationally, without the use of FF'ers. Again, NO real good reason for them. Other than a loophole to run scams on unsuspecting sellers. There are other means to get something shipped internationally, that offers the seller at least a little more protection. "

Again, many sellers do not want to ship internationally, and thats fine. I certainly did not in the last 3-4 years we were actively selling here. But there are international buyers who want items those sellers have. And  shipment to a freight forwarder is NOT international, it is to a domestic address, and once the package is delivered to the FF, the seller is good to go. I had many, many successful sales to buyers who used them, and would wager the majority of sellers here have as well, whether they even realized it or not. Its not the cesspool of scams that you seem to be painting it as.

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If that were all true, then there would not be a thread about FFer's not showing as delivered. What eBay says and does,  may not be the same thing. If YOU want to roll the dice, that's fine. However, there are sellers here who do NOT want to pay the extra fee for international purchases, and they do NOT want the hassle of an international sale. 

How you feel about it means nothing. How I or others want to run our business, is our problem. It's none of anyone's business but our own. There are people who want nothing to do with international sales. Respect THEIR opinions on the matter and stop trying to make them bend to your wishes/reasons. The sale may ship to a US address, but ALL of them ship to a US address before being forwarded to other countries. It's an international sale. Period. Playing word salad does not make where the package ends up, anyplace different. Your duty is NEVER done at the point of delivery. You have sold here long enough to know that, so lets not play that game either. 

If international buyers want things bad enough, there are other ways to get it. Air America is a prime example of filling that gap. It's a USA sale, to a USA funding source. There is never any returns with them either, as I am sure they make those sales final to all their international buyers. 

[slippinjimmy]

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@varebelrose wrote:

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@farmalljr wrote:..No real reason for buyers to use freight forwarders anymore, since eBay offers international shipping, other than to find a way to get "free" stuff.  There may be a few good reasons why they would use a forwarder, but the scams all seem to come from forwarders.

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There is a very good reason many international buyers use forwarders; the fact is that many US sellers opt to NOT sell internationally at all; the use of a FF allows buyers to purchase items from those sellers. It does not mean its a scam.

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Another reason is cost, eBay's International Shipping is NOT cheap in any way shape or form. It might be a bit less than USPS direct but that is all. I can ship to most countries for less than half what EIS charge, forwarders which have much higher volume obviously pay even less than me.

Some of my very best overseas buyers use Forwarders even though I am happy to ship direct if they wish. It's probably because that is just the way they normally buy from the US

[12345jamesstamps]

I get packages from Macao and tracking ends once it is in the USA. After that, I have no tracking in the USA. And I get my packages.  Its possible tracking ends once it leaves the USA. Tracking doesn't always show it moving after a certain destination out of the USA. I would mail the new item. Repeat buyers are hard to obtain. Plus, a freight forward might be waiting for other packages to arrive before sending previous packages out. 

 I sent just a standard envelope to a freight forward address and it sat until other packages arrived.

Did you google the address to see if it is a commercial address?

[iamalwaysright]

I recently had a buyer who I had to ship to that same FF in Wilmington. I didn’t check other responses but I’m sure someone already mentioned that the status will show that for FF from now on.

My buyer filed INR and mentioned they didn’t get the item. They were either playing dumb or really didn’t understand what I meant when I told them to check with their FF agent. I was waiting to be covered by seller protection like you said but the day I was able to file for eBay to step in, the buyer closed the INR himself saying he got the item.

If I were you, I would ship the latest item and treat the purchase separately from the INR.

[varebelrose]

"How you feel about it means nothing. How I or others want to run our business, is our problem. It's none of anyone's business but our own. There are people who want nothing to do with international sales. Respect THEIR opinions on the matter and stop trying to make them bend to your wishes/reasons."
Passive/aggressive much? I am not trying to make anyone "bend" to any point of view, just pointing out that there are, despite your vehement arguments, valid reasons for buyers to use a FF other than to scam sellers.

"The sale may ship to a US address, but ALL of them ship to a US address before being forwarded to other countries. It's an international sale. Period. Playing word salad does not make where the package ends up, anyplace different. Your duty is NEVER done at the point of delivery. You have sold here long enough to know that, so lets not play that game either."
Of course a sellers "duty is done" once a package is shown delivered. Shipping to a US based FF address that has tracking shown delivered IS done, at least as far as any possibility of an INR case being filed. Thats not "word  salad", that is literally eBay policy.

"If international buyers want things bad enough, there are other ways to get it. Air America is a prime example of filling that gap. It's a USA sale, to a USA funding source. There is never any returns with them either, as I am sure they make those sales final to all their international buyers."
Air America and the various other versions of that company ARE a freight forwarder lol.

[farmalljr]

A few things, Air America is NOT a freight forwarder. They are a RESELLER of items on eBay. You give your feedback to AIR AMERICA, not their buyer. They are the BUYER, not a FFer. 

When you can show how eBay always follows it's policies and can show where they have removed from the terms of service "we can change these rules at any point without notice" or where they have removed the "we can make any decision we want and it's final" THEN maybe your point is more believable. We all know eBay does not in fact, always follow it's own policies. It's not a passive aggressive response. It's another member here trotting out the eBay talking points, sweeping things under the rug at the seller's expense. eBay does NOT back the seller as the rules says they will, 100% of the time. 

If a seller here doesn't want to mess with international sales or buyers, it's the sellers business, not mine or yours. You in effect try to play off that there are sellers who have gotten hosed shipping to FFer's. Some of us can afford to absorb those "costs of doing business". Other's can't afford it. You are not an employee of ebay, and you are not backing sellers who will lose money in those scams. So why are you so invested in pretending that ALL sales are protected, when they just aren't? You keep stating it like it's fact. If it was, no thread would ever have been made about how eBay failed to protect sellers and the buyer scammed them through a FFer. 

What you may have experienced up to this point, may NOT be the same thing others have experienced. I'm not passive aggressive, I'm pointing out fake news.