What's the eBay response to 60 minutes segment on harassing journalists for trying to do their jobs?

[peszar-0]

This is SICK tactics by eBay to try and bring down a journalist who is trying to bring to light a crackdown on 2nd Amendment rights. And the CEO exits with a golden parachute. **bleep**!!!!!!

[albertabrightalberta]

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@bonjourami wrote:

"Don't act so aloof about this. Anyone that has worked around a corporation knows how things work. The CEO tells people what to do and how they want it done. "

You have proof that the ceo instigated this attack? I just cant imagine any ceo being that dumb to jeopardize his million dollar career to punish these blog writers, they are all over the internet with attacks on Ebay. Usually from disgruntled ex sellers. Personally, I take them with a grain of salt when I read them.

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@bonjourami 

I've followed the case and this thread but refrained from responding - until now.

Usually I agree with you and your posts but in this case, I have to disagree. 

Although the CEO didn't directly order his colleagues and subordinates to attack, it was admitted that the orders were suggested, perhaps tongue-in-cheek, but nonetheless made. And there were emails and texts documenting the "take her down" and "wanting to see ashes." 

That some took his/their suggestions literally is on them. 

I'd love to see some forensic computer geeks resurrect the deleted emails and texts. I'd bet there's more evidence there; otherwise, why delete them? 

Although you can't "imagine any ceo being that dumb to jeopardize his million dollar career to punish these blog writers," this is one of those cases where I believe it happened.  

[zamo-zuan]

I've stated this before in the other threads about this subject, and it doesn't seem to get very far as it's disregarded next time a new post comes up.

But it was very clearly more than just a small group of rogue employees. It boiled over in to this very community - which is (or at least was, according to eBay reps) led by the leadership team at the time. They had members on here doing this harassment to people (including ones that were not mentioned in the trial), they even had the capability and did read peoples private messages on here. One of the people mentioned in the lawsuit was PMing me and had action taken against them.

We can see how much Wenig knew in the text messages of Baugh going to "fix" the situation once the posters identity is drawn out. Wenig called it "part of running w consumer company". 

He may be able to deny knowledge of exactly what they were going to do, but it's odd that people are downplaying the fact that they openly stated how they were not able to shut him down in any other way, so they had to find his real life identity to "fix it" and "shut him down" with  "whatever it takes". It is also stated they were going to openly communicate with those connected to Wenig to determine the best course of action.

We also know Wenig was in constant connection with Wymer discussing this. Whom Wymer we see had in writing a completely irrational response to this entire situation about being "utterly vexed" and willing to explore ANYTHING to resolve this because the issue "gives him ulcers".

Let's be honest. What do you expect was the plan when they literally invited someone to a hotel room as their way of "shutting him down"?

It was also confirmed that Wenig was the name being mentioned when it was stated "Wenig said to burn her to the ground correct?" in Baugh's messages to Wymer. Which Baugh gave confirmation that he was ordered to "find and destroy". 

People are also not considering how deeply connected Wenig is in the legal world. Look up his past company. They just happen to be the same people who literally print the legal reference books used by lawyers.

People also keep saying it was ran by an "alcoholic rogue employee. What about the fact that this "rogue employee" was constantly in communication with executives every step of the way and encouraged to keep going? 

We also know they were commanded to do their best to keep this as private as possible and the executive "wants to see ashes":

So this certainly bigger than what we see, as the evidence we see is ONLY what slipped through the cracks and was not sufficiently hidden after orders to delete all records of what they were doing.

The fact that this guy is potentially an alcoholic only means that made him easier to manipulate by the executives who literally built a bar on site and used alcohol to their advantage in their work environment and culture.

It's said earlier that it would have been a better plan if devised by the corporate office - the corporate office literally just left it at "take them down, ruin them, destroy them, whatever it takes". They didn't get involved with the messy details as they are familiar with the legal world and plausible deniability. But they were very clear about the extent of how far they wanted Baugh to go, they knew it was illegal enough that they had to cover their tracks as much as possible, and knew it would be so bad it led to fallout.

So nobody should get it twisted. They wouldn't have been consciously hiding records if they were unaware of the criminal activity. They just did a better job of it than Baugh. 

[farmalljr]

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@bonjourami wrote:

"people depending on money made here. But this begs the moral question "How many children would you kill to save the rest of them?". How many people will you allow to be terrorized, harmed, or otherwise exposed to evil/greed/power trips, to save your own "income"? 

Not sure what a house burning down, or children being killed has to do with all this, other than great exaggeration and high drama trying to prove a point.

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Not sure how terrorizing people can be equated to something minor. Maybe in your world being sent live bugs, fetuses, books about your living spouses death, and threats are laughable. I mean, people seem to be acting like this was someone driving by waving the middle finger. This was much more insidious than that. 

I would be willing to wager, that if this had happened to YOU personally, you would not have the same attitude about all that happened. Your lack of empathy for what happened to these people is astounding. 

Our country starts wars over less. This was a clear case of terrorism. It was clearly stalking. There was a clear intent to do harm. It wasn't ONE person, it was many working in concert. I fail to see how anyone can be so blind they can't see it. You would have to be either blind or supportive of these evil acts. 

[bonjourami]

Nobody said it was 'laughable', or 'supportive' of these 'evil acts'.You certainly put your own spin on what was said,at least be accurate ..or it might hurt your credibility with your responses.

Im in complete agreement with Maxine*j, and im quoting here:

Yes, I get the same feeling, that the Steiners get too much mileage out of this to let it go. 

In the criminal cases, seven people were charged, two immediately arrested.  They did not get off lightly in final sentencing, with three sent to jail (for one year, two years, five years), one put under a year's house arrest, two put under lengthy supervised release.  So the criminal justice system worked. 

Now, we have this civil suit to get through, to keep this whole sorry incident in the limelight. The seven already convicted in the criminal case are being sued, along with eBay, former CEO Wenig, former CCO Wymer, and some security firm used by eBay.

Was the  harassing of the Steiners ugly and egregious?  Of course it was.   They were harassed, and they were threatened, and more of the same was planned.  Did someone higher up at eBay do the old, "Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?" thing?  Probably.  But that alone is no crime, or even unusual, although it is heedless.

But I just can't keep from thinking that people who make a living in any other way than the Steiners do would be gratified at the results of the criminal investigation, arrests, convictions, and sentences, and would want to put all the rest behind them. 

[retro_entertainment_collectibles]

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@chapeau-noir wrote:

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@monroe67 wrote:

"May be an Old Story, but it is in the News again today."

And Why is it in the "News" again today?  Because 60 Minutes was able to match up this story with enough minutes in the schedule to air the report tonight.  

Actually, the case did get some renewed reporting a couple weeks ago, when the Steiners were granted permission by the judge to bring in another person as a defendant.  To which I say, and said then, more power to them.  

BTW, the bizarre actions that were perpetrated on the Steiners were not the results of either of them buying or selling anything on eBay.  What they did was express their opinions in a newsletter created and published by themselves -- and those opinions were negative to eBay.   Some boys (yes) at eBay read them, got their feelings hurt, and retaliated like drunken and coked-up frat boys with too much money available to them and overblown senses of privilege and power.  

The "Ask A Mentor" board started to get lots of outraged posts shortly after the show ended tonight.  So many people will be closing their accounts now, to read those posts.  All these people committing to close their eBay accounts because of this news story -- well, unfortunately for me, I doubt that too many of my competitors in my categories look at this years-old story and decide to quit.  

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Apparently Wenig's corporate culture had all the maturity of spoiled pimply 15 year old hormonal boys - drunk 15 year old hormonal boys.

As to the Mentor's Board, though - in 6 pages I saw 6 posts each with one or two sane replies, and they had fallen to page 3 to 6 by now.  There are always alarmists - it's not something that concerns me even a tiny bit.

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These sort of crazy things happen across society here.   For example some years back there was a independent blog reporting everything to do with our local school district.  They too had various stalking and threat matters.  Then there was our cops who the township hired three who'd been fired from other departments as "favor" to the county exec at the time, all three got into more trouble.  When it started appearing there was all sorts of stalk/threats went down.  Lets see, there was the former Town Supe' who was married, having at it with the piano/organ player at a rather posh church who was also married w/ a son who'd mental issues.  Son found out over hearing things and basically blew her brains out of course the media was suppressed towards most of that. 

Starbucks, Amazon and others have attempted suppress unionization through all forms of tactics, nothing Kodak didn't do many a moon back.

Wrongs never make for rights most the time but since we're all having this discussion we should be also speaking about what journalism represents.  Poor journalism both on the professional and non scales has  been a huge factor in what might be coined our national disaster having become a mechanism of use versus the check and balance mechanism the forefathers intended.  Things like threats and far worse are nothing new at all to folks like Chris Cuomo.  They are handled by authorities and proper protections in place as much as can be but he doesn't strut around seeking financial gain as a result of corporations or privateers engaging in such matters.  He was fired from his job under a wrongful pretense and seeks the rest of what was due him by contract.

My point is that such activities in stalking etc are certainly wrong and should be managed by law as they have.  However, if a party chooses to be "The Press," a news reporting entity then as such seeking financial gain in respect to events related to said reporting should generally be off the table unless actual physical harm and bills thereof come to bare.  The phrase of, "If its too hot the kitchen..." comes to mind no matter the news reporting entities.

IMHO and this isn't focal mind you on this particular site or events these independent news sites/entities are a growing issue.  Whereby anyone can put out a site or videos etc claiming be journalists needs some serious regulatory matters of such.  Today I'm a software engineer, tomorrow I'm news media?  No.

Of course there's great danger to our Democracy in the face of regulating such things but there is just as great a danger not doing so as we've seen throughout the emergence of digital media.  Sure, it's existed as far back as the nations forming but seldom in the nations history has ever so much of it become steroidal.  I don't quite know the solution, perhaps licensing requirements as was done with Radio before Internet Radio struck once again negating what was in place.  That's to say stations were accountable to their hosts words in as much as can be.  Entities such as Limbaugh, Maddow, Beck, Hannity on and on have endured far far more than this matter and they know it comes with the territory.

Again doesn't mean that stalking or threats etc are proper be they from a corporation or individual and those are matters of law enforcement.  Seeking damages however for a profession chosen to be a portion of where it's well known such matters occur quite regularly is another matter.  If Mr. Cuomo, Hannity and literally countless others including reporters manhandled were to pursue and receive monetary awards as a result of their choosing their profession... Well, imagine what be said of them as well as the impact on journalism itself?

As another example, I ran a Multiple Sclerosis website for some four years which was one of the most comprehensive venues on the Internet of the health condition.  The work was considerable, about 50/60 hours a week or more having support (not financial) of literally every patient association around the world such as the US MS Society, UK, Aussie on and on as well as the research, medical and even Pharma.  It was an independent venue, not a business, not a 501C and translated to 127 different languages.  In fact, I was bridging Nascar when I had to fold it up.

That said after the first year gaining so much traction the attacks ensued.  There were attacks from other individualized or team oriented private venues, attacks across social media, threats, false claims of the work being that of Pharma on and on.  We'd even established a 24/7 Internet radio network paid out of my pocket whereby patients capable and MS professionals discuss research, help, mechanisms of coping, family, employment and the full gambit.

There was always mental struggle for me.  The venue began as just a little local resource as my lady has MS and localized information was hard come by.  It just exploded unto the global scene perhaps a credit to my web engineering prowess but I attribute more to considerably higher power if ya' get the drift, his work as doors opened that don't tend to open!   Here I'm workin' my tail off to help millions of patients, researchers, families and then some only to have entities attacking the work when said work was all for them, I never made a red cent.  Imagine me suing other patient driven private entities, patients, naturalists not to mention those citing "God punishing those people" and threats against yours truly in civil actions?  In as far news on the site it was extremely encompassing and aggregated from other venues partnering up.  Gave the patients, families, medical professionals a one stop shop for news/events and the venues enjoy the visibility, good exchange, win/win scenarios the entire concept.  We'd the most detailed data on the condition, symptoms etc anyplace on the internet vetted by very notable researchers/med professionals that existed on the Net.  If you wanted know little about Nystagmus (uncontrolled eye movements) or sleep disorders etc it was there, if you wanted something bit more detailed was there, if you wanted go clinical level it was there complete with hot pop up links for terminology explanations.  We'd a whole video section of notable Neurologists, researchers etc covering an enormous girth of the condition.

But the attacks were rather constant, as it continued grow so did the attacks, I'd three cellphone paid out of pocket, personal, professional and "the other" all due to attacks.  I'd changed the one number out I don't know how many times 10? 15? 20?

When I say I know how to make websites "boom" or at least decent vision in how do so I'm not tooting a horn.  All that said and done an amazing thing that emerged from the work was the entirety of it I literally made portable to any other complex health condition. Change out the data, ready to go.

I completely understand personally what the couple endured, I've endured worse not only via the MS work but my ex lady a fearless politician who was for example all over the Gulf Oil Disaster... Talk about threats?  They've no idea and in an industry where people have been known to literally disappear.  But its important understand if you're going dance around the fire things can get hot, very hot in the case of the Gulf.  In fact, she'd found a company able to mitigate the spill got him on radio with the likes of Michakoku (physicist) among others talking about it.  He was from South Africa, he died under rather mysterious circumstances his ashes were shipped to our local post office in fact where I had to pick him up.  No lie.

It was my ex lady's choice to dance around the fire and she told me if I don't like it feel free to leave but that's who she is, rather fearless and I stood by her.

Again my point being you could set up a controversial news web and in doing so attract bad actors of any or all kinds.  Those a matter of law to pursue but its choice that determines what we do and suing up a bunch of entities based on a choice that's dancing around the fire doesn't work in my head.  Want sue the perpetrators who put this family in fear, ok, I get that.  Otherwise at least in my limited brain its like you chasing me in you're car as you're a GM employee angry at something I wrote on the web about GM and you're boss who puts a bounty on me.  You're car slams into mine and now I want sue GM.  The corporation is publicly owned via stock regardless of the players.  

[dbfolks166mt]

The leader of the gang that did this was a bad alcoholic I believe and had employees under him that he was directing. These others were highly influenced by this guys power and position in the company. Many of the others were lower level employees and very young and impressionable. This one guy that got five years in prison was the ultimate culprit.

     Fully realize that I have read through the case on multiple occasions along with the sentencing for those involved. Power and position does not put anyone above the law and there was no coercion involved. They simply followed of their own free will. I remember an individual named Oliver North and an issue called the Iran Contra affair that had similar players although the outcome for those individuals was totally different. 

[bonjourami]

Hopefully the sixty million that the Steiners want will calm their nerves.

[dbfolks166mt]

Just as a side note about what big corps do to each other. The people who tried to take control of ebay during Wenigs tenure have a host of death threat tactic and other really wild ways they try to take down other companies especially terrorizing CEO’s to make them quit. Elliot Management was after ebay at the time.  I believe they have done quite ridiculous things as well with their money and power.

     Well at least the mob tactics have become a bit more civilized and they didn't gun them down in a garage on St. Valentine's day or simply deposit them in lake Mead in a 55 gallon drum. I wonder if any of them had a horse head placed in their bed?

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

As to Wenig and ebay itself: The burden of proof in a criminal case is higher than in a civil case, and the DA evidently decided there was insufficient evidence to meet the criminal burden. As I understand it, both ebay and Wenig remain as defendants in the civil suit, and I feel certain that the Steiners' attorney will do everything she can to hold them liable. But suspicion is not enough, and she will need to either meet her burden of proof in court or she will have to put enough pressure on ebay and Wenig to achieve a settlement. I would guess the Sixty Minute story was basically part of her pressure campaign.  

This could very well end with a settlement in which ebay and/or Wenig pay out a considerable amount of money while continuing to deny any wrongdoing. 

My view hasn't changed---from a seller standpoint, ebay faces intense competition and hasn't been doing  enough to battle that competition---I'm more concerned about that, and how it impacts my sales here---than I am about how this suit impacts my sales. 

[retro_entertainment_collectibles]

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@bonjourami wrote:

Hopefully the sixty million that the Steiners want will calm their nerves.

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Well one things for certain, its not eBay nor likely CBS that pounded the pavement to make the segment appear.  The known perp's have been convicted and someone came up with the idea, "We're owed" thus attempting to hold a corporation liable for the actions.  I don't see anything about for example, "Teach corporate America a lesson... Should we win the day in the civil suit we will be donating all monies awarded to The Shriners Hospital, a not for profit 501C."

[mam98031]

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@retro_entertainment_collectibles wrote:

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@bonjourami wrote:

Hopefully the sixty million that the Steiners want will calm their nerves.

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Well one things for certain, its not eBay nor likely CBS that pounded the pavement to make the segment appear.  The known perp's have been convicted and someone came up with the idea, "We're owed" thus attempting to hold a corporation liable for the actions.  I don't see anything about for example, "Teach corporate America a lesson... Should we win the day in the civil suit we will be donating all monies awarded to The Shriners Hospital, a not for profit 501C."

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I don't believe the Steiner's have announced what they plan to do with the money!  I wouldn't assume that means they plan to keep it all even thought it would be their right to do so.

[vintagecraze50]

For goodness sakes, why would they EVER want to be a problem for ebay again after this. Ride into the sunset with some margarita’s.

[vintagecraze50]

Yes, reopening and experiencing the trauma they went through if they are still highly traumatized sure might get worse with what they are doing now. And they are putting themselves out there for the general public as well for scrutiny. That’s a scary spot for sure. But they do not just want justice, they want MOOLA.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

@vintagecraze50   Ride into the sunset is exactly what they might do. Then again, some say revenge is sweet, and the Steiners might feel that way. Only time will tell.

[bonjourami]

I do think that sixty million will buy a lot of revenge for them.