eBay

davebhop · ‎05-10-2018

I recently sold a BRAND NEW $6500 embroidery machine. The customer had the machine for 2-3 days then opened a NOT AS DESCRIBED case. I sent return FedEx label and received the return a week later. when I opened the box there was a very used $1500 embroidery machine inside. I immediately contacted eBay and gave them the serial number of the item I shipped and the serial number of the item that was returned. I sent pictures of the item that was sent and pictures of the item received on the return. I filed a police report. I contacted FedEx and found the return shipment weighed 15 pounds less than the original shipment. I contacted the customer to see if there was a mistake on the item the returned. They told me they did not know what I was talking about.

This is what eBay told me... There was nothing we could or would do. because the customer did not admit to the fraud in the emails. They told me I was on my own and that they would send the full refund! at the end of the case's waiting period.

I then contacted Paypal and was told they only protected buyers and that sellers are on there own. And that I should hire a lawyer and open a civil case against the buyer. MY HEAD ALMOST POPPED OFF!

So sellers, I would just like you to know you are not protected from buyer scams on expensive items... by eBay or Paypal and for you scammers buying expensive items and then returning inexpensive items...IT WORKS. And works very well!

Need to upgrade your equipment? just buy new and send back your old wore out item. Ebay and paypal will help you. Just remember never admit to what you are doing in email! And you will get it for free!

nkpina2014 · ‎07-19-2018

@jcol22720 wrote:
I am done with Ebay Something Seems to have Changed In the last 3 months as Far as Management and Seller Protections.

I Didn't Know you could just Buy what you needed, Then say, Item Not received Or Item Not as Described, and get to Keep The Item And Get a Refund. I need Lots of things that I Don't have The Money For, But I thought That was ''Fraud''.
Apparently Ebay and PayPal thinks Differently!

It IS fraud, but how much fraud is worth going after a fraudulent buyer for?

For $6500, the OP can file a civil suit AND have the buyer arrested criminally. The OP has the buyer's address. It just takes some leg work.

plantaddict · ‎07-19-2018

I am so sorry this happened to you, it's a sad shame that eBay doesn't protect it's seller's anymore than this. I understand that there is a he said/she said factor to it, however when a seller has proof it should be evaluated by someone and especially high value items. As obvious as it is eBay doesn't care, the community certainly does and I hope enough people make enough noise or get it to the right places to make enough noise that eBay comes out with pie on their faces as they should!

As for this scamming buyer, I'm quite certain he didn't just wake up that day and decide he would rip someone off for $6500. He has most likely done this to other sellers, probably in lower amounts to test the waters and realized how easily he could get away with it and then just slowly worked his way up to feeling comfortable enough to steal something with a high value amount. Anyone feeling comfortable enough to steal any item valued that high on eBay should tell them a thing or two about their policies!

I would follow the advice of many of the other posters on here, they are very knowledgable, but I would not just walk away from this. I would do as other's have sugguested and file police reports, mail fraud, anything and everything that could possibly be done to this person I would do! Even if you do recover your machine I would still sue their butts for expenses incurred as a result of their fradulent activites.

I wish you the best and hope that everything turns out in your favor. As aggravating and stressful as it all is I would not give up and would do anything possible and pursue every avenue to see that justice is served to the thieving buyer!

justincomito · ‎07-19-2018

As a Seller we have absolutely no protection or recourse when a buyer opens up a case like this. As a result of being burned yet again on an item listed as "for parts or not working" I will cease selling on ebay once my remaining two items sell. EBAY will do NOTHING to help the seller and EVERYTHING for the buyer, always!

new-in-town · ‎07-19-2018

Great idea, but even better if a TV station in their hometown in NY, shamed the schmuck into doing the right thing.

littlemissmeganandme · ‎07-20-2018

That is the biggest lie that eBay has ever perpetrated.

yuncreations · ‎07-23-2018

this is terrible!! open a lawsuit against eBay and PayPal!!
PayPal once didn't protect me, and I lost $100 (I can't even imagine what you feel for $6000!!)

yuncreations · ‎07-23-2018

yeah, but that limits your sales a lot. I wouldn't be selling anything that way. 😞

pressstartgames-newengland · ‎07-23-2018

Ebays system for rating sellers is a joke. I’ve been selling on eBay for over 10 years and have always been an “above standard” seller. (10,000+ transactions, 99.5% positive). Recently my acct went below standard (due to some of ebays very strict and strange ways). I’m still at 99.5% positive. I have certain items with 200+ watchers, 75+ sold, and no defects on those specific item numbes. In the category, this is exceptional compared to what other sellers are offering for this exact item. The day my acct went below standard, all my search results went from the first visible “ best match “ option, to NEARLY THE BOTTOM OF THE SEARCH BARREL, ( 5th from last) and sales have halted. I have 3000+ items for sale, and pay about 25,000K a year to eBay in fees, yet, new Users with 0 feedback and fake photos have a better chance of selling than me right now. It’s very very insulting.

mam98031 · ‎07-23-2018

Not to mention that if you are Below Standard, you are paying the 40% FVF penalty for being below standard. This makes it even harder to dig yourself out of this mess. I sincerely hope you find a way to move your status back up very soon.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

chesterfieldavenue · ‎07-23-2018

I would contact the police department in the buyer's area as well. It's horrible that this problem exists on ebay. And i feel like the scammers are getting worse IMO. I have moved my more expensive items off of ebay for this reason (not that it helps you in this case) If ebay refuses to have my back, I refuse to let them get the money going forward.

castlemagicmemories · ‎07-23-2018

@davebhop

Any updates to share? Many here are pulling for you!

glehns · ‎07-26-2018

Hi @davebhop, sorry to hear that. We had a similar issue 2 years ago for a $4000, what we received back was only paper. The buyer had no feedback, invalid phone #, a proof that this buyer was in jail in the past for theft and other evidence. eBay made the decision to refund. Nobody there helped. The buyer is now in jail but didn't help us to receive the $4000 back. Contact us if you need something, if we are 2 we can better tell the world what eBay is doing to the sellers.
@alan@ebay
@brian.t@ebay

gripthis2009 · ‎07-28-2018

The fact is PayPal encourages fraud, and is the perfect platform for people who wish to commit fraud. I served as a judge for the State of Florida Dept. of Business, and Professional Regulation (DBPR). The Florida DBPR is the judicial arm of the Florida Secretary of State, and regulates all businesses foreign, and domestic, doing business in the State of Florida. It is also tied in with the U.S. Trade Commission.

My ex-wife has an account with PayPal, and sells on eBay. She just experienced "return fraud" on eBay. eBay backed her 100% and were very helpful. PayPal was another story. The buyer who committed the fraud that lost his claim on eBay, then filed a claim with PayPal. I stepped in to get involved when PayPal started violating Florida, and Federal Law. First, we sent undisputed documentation that the buyer was using a fake telephone number, and delivery address that was a vacant lot. That fact alone is fraud, and defrauding a merchant in Florida where her business is incorporated. In addition, we sent undisputed evidence the buyer had pulled this same stunt on other eBay merchants. All that evidence was ignored by PayPal, and they ruled in the buyer's favor debiting her PayPal account without her products the buyer purchased being returned. PayPal then "limited" her PayPal account because the buyer falsely claimed the purchased producys were counterfeit. Her eBay account has a 100% feedback score, has a power seller. top rated seller rating, and has been on eBay, and used PayPal for 10 years. All that meant nothing to PayPal.

I then sent PayPal a ten day demand letter that was ignored. In addition, I contacted the Florida DBPR with the complaint asking that the DBPR suspend PayPal's business operation in Florida pending an investigation by the DBPR, since Paypal had just had litigation in U.S. Federal Court for committing the same offenses. The Florida DBPR did violate PayPal immediately for one of their violations. During this time, I was finally able to contact senior management in PayPal Trust & Safety (Americans) instead of their HB1 Visa employees. The American PayPal senior management were very professional, concerned, and helpful. In the mean time, the buyer finally shipped back a package purported to be the 4 products they had purchased. The package was opened up in front of a U.S. Postmaster. The box contained two blocks of wood which is mail fraud, and a felony punishable up to 30 years in prison, and a 1 million dollar fine. Now PayPal had a real problem. An arrest warrant is pending against the buyer and their accomplices. PayPal did return the money it had debited from the PayPal account, and are supposedly restoring the PayPal account. However, Nancy also has a merchant account (VISA/ MasterCard/ Discover/ AmX).

I dropped the Florida DBPR violation claim against PayPal when they returned the money. However, an investigation into PayPal's conduct in Florida continues. PayPal, or anyone else does not have the legal right to debit money from a seller, when the seller has not received the item back from the buyer. In other words, the buyer doesn't get to keep the product and receive a refund. That's called "defrauding a merchant" in Florida Law, and I'm sure in most other states. PayPal also does NOT have the right to hold a merchants funds for six months. PayPal just paid out 4 million dollars in a U.S. Federal Court for doing so. Many of the eBay/ PayPal "policies" are in violation of certain state's laws they do business in. If a eBay/ PayPal policy conflicts with a state, or federal law, the eBay/ PayPal "policy" is invalid. That is why you consult a lawyer.

Any merchant that accepts PayPal as payment is just asking for trouble. Anyone with a checking account with $10.00 in the account, can become a PayPal merchant. Not so with a seller that has a merchant account. They have to have a very good credit rating, and sell a genuine product, all of which is verified.

The same thing with PayPal buyers. If you have a checking account, and want to commit fraud, you can use a fake address, and telephone number, and use PayPal to purchase items on the internet.

bauble-babes · ‎07-28-2018

@glehns

"We had a similar issue 2 years ago for a $4000, what we received back was only paper. The buyer had no feedback, invalid phone #, a proof that this buyer was in jail in the past for theft and other evidence. eBay made the decision to refund. Nobody there helped. The buyer is now in jail but didn't help us to receive the $4000 back."

Because of the rise in mail fraud, I now open all expensive returns at the post office in front of employees. If Fraud occurs, I have Federal witnesses who can quickly pull up my original listing and see what should be in the package. I can then file the fraud paperwork on the spot. Fortunately, I've not had an issue yet.

imakesugar · ‎08-14-2018

@bauble-babes wrote:
@glehns
"We had a similar issue 2 years ago for a $4000, what we received back was only paper. The buyer had no feedback, invalid phone #, a proof that this buyer was in jail in the past for theft and other evidence. eBay made the decision to refund. Nobody there helped. The buyer is now in jail but didn't help us to receive the $4000 back."

Because of the rise in mail fraud, I now open all expensive returns at the post office in front of employees. If Fraud occurs, I have Federal witnesses who can quickly pull up my original listing and see what should be in the package. I can then file the fraud paperwork on the spot. Fortunately, I've not had an issue yet.

So, does this work? I mean You could list something of value, send something else and then when the SNAD comes back then it could be the same thing that you sent and still the listing would show what You were suposed to send.

This only proves what YOU GOT back.