Victim of buyer fraud

[davebhop]

I recently sold a BRAND NEW $6500 embroidery machine. The customer had the machine for 2-3 days then opened a NOT AS DESCRIBED case. I sent return FedEx label and received the return a week later. when I opened the box there was a very used $1500 embroidery machine inside. I immediately contacted eBay and gave them the serial number of the item I shipped and the serial number of the item that was returned. I sent pictures of the item that was sent and pictures of the item received on the return. I filed a police report. I contacted FedEx and found the return shipment weighed 15 pounds less than the original shipment. I contacted the customer to see if there was a mistake on the item the returned. They told me they did not know what I was talking about.

This is what eBay told me... There was nothing we could or would do. because the customer did not admit to the fraud in the emails. They told me I was on my own and that they would send the full refund! at the end of the case's waiting period.

I then contacted Paypal and was told they only protected buyers and that sellers are on there own. And that I should hire a lawyer and open a civil case against the buyer. MY HEAD ALMOST POPPED OFF!

So sellers, I would just like you to know you are not protected from buyer scams on expensive items... by eBay or Paypal and for you scammers buying expensive items and then returning inexpensive items...IT WORKS. And works very well! 

Need to upgrade your equipment? just buy new and send back your old wore out item. Ebay and paypal will help you. Just remember never admit to what you are doing in email! And you will get it for free!

[sambur-9245]

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@pburn wrote:

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@sambur-9245 wrote:
Local pickup with cash in hand they can't claim not as described.

Go read the MBG

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Question for you and/or @missjen831. I have looked everywhere on the eBay MGB (which I don't find the least bit user friendly, btw), and I can't find that "exception" anywhere. Could one of you either copy/paste it or post a link to the exact page where it is? And, if further clicking is required, kind of go through that for me?

eBays help pages are just frustrating for me. I really try to look this stuff up myself in order to learn it better, or bookmark it, but without much success. 

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If the item is paid for in cash there there is no way for eBay or PayPal to refund it.

And here is the policy that covers local pickup

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

• Items damaged during local pickup
• Local pickup items that were not collected by, or on behalf of, the buyer
• Items not delivered, damaged during collection, or damaged during shipment when the buyer arranges pick-up or shipping of the item (for instance, the buyer arranges freight)

[pburn]

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@ymeagainlord wrote:
They're not covered by either the MBG OR PP buyer protection.

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Well, yes, right. I know that already. Since the transaction was in cash, PayPal would not be involved in any way, since they would have no jurisdiction over a transaction to which they were not a party. 

I asked in my post for the actual specific citation in the eBay MBG.

[emerald40]

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

It shows what payment methods do cover you for buyer protection and cash is not one of them.

[chrysylys]

Folks can we quit with the cudda, wudda, shudda?  It isn't helping the OP.

You should probably stop posting here and GO to your local police to push the process.  And for $6500, I would be in my car headed for the buyer's PD to push them also.

[pburn]

Thanks for the obvious point that neither eBay nor PayPal can refund the buyer's money. That just hadn't crossed my mind--big "duh" on my part.

So, even though the passage you cited (which I actually had found previously, believe it or not) doesn't actually refer to "item not as described," but only refers to "damage," that's still the part of the policy members would rely upon to avoid a "SNAD" or "INAD" (whichever acronym you prefer) being requested on a local pick up transaction? So more of just an inference than a specific passage? I mean, it makes perfect sense to me, but I'm surprised it's not spelled out in a more formal fashion. Or am I? LOL!

Thanks so much for your help with this one!

[chrysylys]

Make sure you have all the paperwork with you.  Everything connected to this deal including the serial number of the machine you sold.  For that dollar amount, the local PD can execute a no-knock search warrant (break the door open, force entry, cuff everyone inside and physically search the entire premises) for evidence of your machine or what may have happened to it.  They can also search for anything connected to the machine you received in return.

[davebhop]

It is a small shop in NY NY They have a uniform business... I guess they wanted to upgrade their Embroidery machine from a run down 4 needle machine to a brand new 7 needle 😞 I called the local police dept. And was told they would only take a police report in person or if contacted by my local police. I imagine it will take time. my impression of the officer that took my report is I was wasting his time. And most likely I would need a Lawyer and a court date. Very depressing. I have the fund$ and will do whatever it takes to make this thief's life a living hell LOL

I wish I knew someone in NY NY they could go in the shop and take a picture for me. I live in Idaho and have seriously considered hiring a private D. Got 2 quotes of 500 for some inside video. Without knowing if they even keep the machine at that location... it seems unwise. If they would only charge me if they got a photo I would do it in a heartbeat. It's not a huge amount of money that I scammed on, but I have felt very Abused about this and have not slept well for days. It feels personal. And I must right this wrong.

[emerald40]

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@chrysylys wrote:

Make sure you have all the paperwork with you.  Everything connected to this deal including the serial number of the machine you sold.  For that dollar amount, the local PD can execute a no-knock search warrant (break the door open, force entry, cuff everyone inside and physically search the entire premises) for evidence of your machine or what may have happened to it.  They can also search for anything connected to the machine you received in return.

________________________________________________

I could be wrong, but the police are not going to come in hot and heavy over a civil matter.

This is not like a smashed store or broken windows on a house where there is evidence a crime took place.  Or a thief being stopped in your car.

This is a he said/she said matter.  They will reluctantly take a police report (if you do not live in a busy police district) and tell you to take it to court. 

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[chrysylys]

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@davebhop wrote:

It is a small shop in NY NY They have a uniform business... I guess they wanted to upgrade their Embroidery machine from a run down 4 needle machine to a brand new 7 needle 😞 I called the local police dept. And was told they would only take a police report in person or if contacted by my local police. I imagine it will take time. my impression of the officer that took my report is I was wasting his time.

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I get the impression he gets his uniforms there and is looking forward to some newer, fancier ones.

Probably need to step over them to the county or state level.

[Anonymous]

File for mail fraud with the postal inspector

[davebhop]

CORRECT 

[chrysylys]

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@emerald40 wrote:

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I could be wrong, but the police are not going to come in hot and heavy over a civil matter.

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This is a felony.  Likely falls under some form of Grand Theft.  Using the mail (FedEx) makes it Federal.

[pburn]

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@emerald40 wrote:

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

It shows what payment methods do cover you for buyer protection and cash is not one of them.

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Oh, yes. There it* is. Perfect! I was looking under "not covered" instead of "covered." Many thanks! 

*The buyer made the purchase on eBay.com via checkout or an eBay invoice with one of the following payment methods:

• PayPal
• PayPal Credit
• Credit card or debit card
• eBay gift cards, eBay bucks and eBay vouchers

[davebhop]

His ebay store and user name are the same as the little uniform shop that was the address I sent the machine too. 

[pburn]

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@davebhop wrote:

His ebay store and user name are the same as the little uniform shop that was the address I sent the machine too. 

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So your buyer also sells? Wow. Unreal.