Very scary trust breaking recent events with eBay as a 7 Figure Top rated seller

[sutedevices]

Hey all, I hope you're selling like crazy!

I'd like to start off by saying the past 2 years I have been selling on eBay have been very good. A blessing really. We sold about $2,500,00 in that time and I have been very happy with eBays customer service and help. 97% of the time they have helped me all the way. Sometimes I have to get a different rep that actually cares, but that was no problem. Or sometimes I'll just take a loss when they can't help, but that is rare. Fine no problem.

But this week, for some reason on my birthday of all days. I have taken the 2 of the largest losses I have ever taken in my life on eBay. 

#1. A chargeback payment dispute. $1,870.43 LOST. with no seller protection. No idea why.

UPS Signature tracking showing delivered and proof of delivery.

I get so many payment disputes I lose count. Most of the time I lose them from the credit card companies of course, but seller protection 99% of the time covers me. But for some reason I lost this one for a huge amount of $1,870.43. Money gone

Next day 

#2. A buyer who bought a bulk listing with 10 units in one listing $1,495.

(Who also gave me a positive review saying the devices were good.)

He says in the return description "One of the items don't work." He returns only one. I inform eBay he only sent one item and it was defective and broken. Not all 10 units. I speak with a representative for a while who said she notated everything down stating I can not give a "50% partial refund if he gave me back 1 of 10 of the items, and broken at that." 

1 day later "We couldn't determine it was the buyers fault, we have taken $1,495 from your account" even though I have sold over 10,000 units and $2.5M with excellent feedback.

Very sad to lose this huge amount money to eBay helping scammers in a matter of 2 horrible gut wrenching days, one of them being my birthday, yes but whats more painful is now I don't feel I can trust my partner eBay as much as I once did. And that is a much worse feeling.

TLDR:

Hi I am a $2.5M year seller on eBay. They have always helped us as much as possible. But within a matter of 2 unlucky days they yanked $3,300 from me to 2 scammers.

#1. Buyer returned $1,449.99 item broken, and got a full free refund. (He also gave me a positive review saying the devices were good.)

#2. Chargeback scammer got $1,870.43 I got no seller protection even though I used UPS Signature tracking. UPS shows delivered with proof of delivery.

Both times 0 help at all whatsoever with many different agents. 

Just felt like I needed to put this out there  somewhere for 1 person to read who maybe is in the same situation or just to vent. Either way. We'll come back 100x stronger, believe that 😉 

Thanks for reading. 

[worldwide_ship]

I'm sorry to hear about these losses. As a fellow consumer electronics seller you will unfortunately continue to have these types of issues. My first year selling 15 years ago a scammer got me for $1500. I literally cried, but I'm still here. Just learn from your mistakes, write it off, and keep going! As for your specific issue...

#1. There is a reason why you lost the chargeback. Call eBay, BE POLITE, and find out why. Reply here when you find out why and I may be able to help. 

#2. 9/10 the buyer will be honest, and willingly pay you back. Just contact them and POLITELY ask for the payment via PP, CAPP, Venmo ect. If all else fails, if there is documentation the buyer only returned one you can most likely have eBay reverse the case. You may have to call many times before this happens. BE POLITE  and have your evidence ready  I've called up to 30 times for weeks at times. 

[sumsum70]

Once you've exhausted all options with eBay reps, appeals, eBay for Business, follow the arbitration process. 

First send the notice of dispute form. No need for long elaborate explanations, simply state a buyer purchased 10 items, returned one, eBay returned the full payment, this is the item number, etc. Demand eBay reimburse for the balance. Be sure to send certified mail with return receipt.

eBay will ignore your notice of dispute and not respond at all. After 30 days from delivery of the dispute letter, you can either demand arbitration and also that eBay pay for the arbitration, or you can sue eBay in small claims court if the amount is under like $10k or something. In Pennsylvania, I would send eBay a 10-day notice that payment is required or suit will be filed. Your state will have it's own rules.

After the 2nd letter, eBay will either make things right and credit your account or call your bluff and continue to ignore you. Give them about 30 days from receipt of 2nd letter, they are notoriously slow, likely on purpose.

And don't send one dispute for multiple transactions. If you have two problems with eBay, dispute them separately.

[broto_64]

Both of your buyers were not scammers.

The buyer who returned 1 out of the 10 items most likely had no idea what they were doing was wrong. We know that buyer should have returned all 10 items but they didn't. Granted, it could be a scam but... What that buyer should have done is either returned all 10 items or ordered one more then returned the faulty one on the one good order. But a scammer this buyer most likely isn't.

The one who filed a chargeback may also not be a scammer, I assume they didn't receive their item even thou the tracking shows delivery. The at-fault party here is the bank, and ebay for not backing you up but it is quite possible the buyer never did find their package (like porch pirates took it maybe).

Last but not least, lets get this straight:
Ebay is NOT your "partner."

Seriously, and if they claim to be your partner just know they will look out for themselves first, you last.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

No one wants losses of that sort.

But you are selling items which are high fraud. You need to be pricing to allow you to absorb some losses due to fraud.

Although that is a big sum, it is a small percentage of your annual Ebay sales.

Ebay does not promise to pay your chargeback losses for service related chargebacks. It only promises to for non-service related chargebacks like unauthorized purchase/stolen credit card. The bank decides whether you win or lose and the buyer decides that the dispute reason is.

The term seller protection is a remnant of the PayPal days. Although Ebay sometimes uses it, it is best forgotten. You should rely on the specifics of Ebay policy.

[luckythewinner]

#1. A chargeback payment dispute. $1,870.43 LOST. with no seller protection. No idea why.

UPS Signature tracking showing delivered and proof of delivery.

I get so many payment disputes I lose count. Most of the time I lose them from the credit card companies of course, but seller protection 99% of the time covers me. But for some reason I lost this one for a huge amount of $1,870.43. Money gone

What type of payment dispute was it?

If the payment dispute is for "item non received" or "do not recognize transaction", then providing the correct delivery confirmation is supposed to protect you.

But if the payment dispute is for "not as described", then it does not protect you. This is written right into eBay policy. 

[mam98031]

@sutedevices 

In #1, you did not share with us the reason the buyer opened the Chargeback Dispute.  That is an important piece of information as it plays a big part it how they are handled.  If it was opened because the buyer said it wasn't delivered, then even if the CCC [credit card company] ruled against you, Ebay would have or should have covered you under seller protection.  So is there something else happening going on with this dispute?

Also did you submit evidence / proof on the chargeback or did you just wait for them to rule?  

#2 Was refunded in full because you escalated the case or the buyer did to Ebay.  That isn't something a seller should allow to happen.  It will likely never end up with a happy ending for the seller.  If your buyer was working with you, you should have been able to negotiate a partial refund for the 1 item.  Issue the partial refund and then if the buyer accepts it, all is good.  But BEFORE you wait too long so that Ebay steps in.

How to offer a partial refund

To offer a partial refund:

1. Go to your Returns dashboard.
2. Select View return details beside the item.
3. Select Offer a partial refund and then Continue.
4. Enter the amount you wish to offer the buyer.
5. You can choose to add a message to the buyer.
6. Select Send offer.

You can only offer a partial refund once, and the buyer can choose to accept or reject your offer.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115

Towards the end of your post you are confusing me a bit.  You say situation #1 the item was broken and the buyer returned the item.  If that is the case, they should have gotten a full refund.  Then you say #2 is about receiving the item [INR].  So I'm a bit confused between the beginning and the end of your post.  Or are we talking about 4 different cases?  To make it even a bit more confusing your dollar figures differ between the description of the cases in the beginning and towards the end.  

I don't think you had scammers here.  Just buyers that had issues with their purchases.  I am however unclear as to what you did to handle each case.  And are their 2 cases or 4?

[sutedevices]

#1: Buyer bought a listing of mine for 10 iphones in one listing. He sent back 1 of them broken/unworking. I call eBay while the case is still open of course. They note everything down. I can not "partial refund" $750.00 dollars when they technically sent back a $50 dollar item in this un working condition. 

I already called him politely and all he said did was get angry and said don't call again.

#2: The item was shipped to a Miami freight forwarding company. All the reviews say they help credit card fraudsters. (Wish I saw it before shipping) 

Yes the chargeback was for "item not described".  The chargeback message the buyer sent was all in spanish 

Thank you for your reply 

[sutedevices]

Yep it was not as described. Thanks for the help 

[sutedevices]

Got it, thank you 

[sutedevices]

Got it. I appreciate your help 

[sutedevices]

Sadly for #2 I already messaged them and called them. They just said don't call again 

But hey this was very helpful. Thank you for your message. I really appreciate your time. I will continue trying to get the other refunded at least

[reallynicestamps]

. I speak with a representative for a while who said she notated everything down stating I can not give a "50% partial refund if he gave me back 1 of 10 of the items, and broken at that."

This is part of the problem.

The phone reps are subcontracted, and are not directly working for eBay.

Were you Chatting with an eBay employee assigned to social media?

The phone reps have a terrible reputation for getting you off the phone as soon as possible even if that means giving you the advice you want to hear instead of the advice you need to have.


https://www.facebook.com/ebay— Message button in upper right on landing page.

https://www.instagram.com/ebayforsellers/


https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/How-do-I-contact-Customer-Support/m-p/32016431#M1783851 -> Automated Assistant, type AGENT -> enter. You will then get more options.


The social media Chat accounts are covered by trained eBay employees with some authority.
And you get a transcript so you can compare what you heard with what you were told.
 

The transcript can also be used to hold eBay to the word of their employee.

At your level you may have been speaking with your concierge. Did you get a transcript?

[mam98031]

In #1, you could have issued a partial refund if the buyer opened a Request for return in Ebay.  I gave you the instructions in my post.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Very-scary-trust-breaking-recent-events-with-eBay-as-a-7-Figur...

#2. Of the buyer was making this claim and the item was somewhere other than where you shipped it and you can prove that, then you should be covered under seller protection.  This is covered in the Money Back Guarantee policy.  Once the item ships from the Freight Forwarder to another country, you are no longer responsible for it.

[gamersbaystore]

If your buyers are committing mail fraud then report it! USPS will defend you, they have defended me many times, and prosecuted many of my scamming buyers over the years, even forcing them to pay back what they stole in restitution.

As for the chargebacks, the financial institutions have broad legal authority to decide these cases, and ebay has no say in it whatsoever.

Regardless, you handled this all wrong. Anytime a buyer initiates a fraudulent chargeback, returns an item other than what was originally sent, etc,  my response is always the same, close the case or get reported for mail fraud, which is a federal crime. They are quick to close the cases and I never hear from them again.

I report them for it anyway, the fact they attempted to commit fraud is enough to convict them. Likewise, if you don't report these cases, the scammers will just keep defrauding others.

I'm not shy in threatening legal action against the financial institutions as well if necessary.

ebay could certainly do more to combat fraud on their platform, but the sad reality is that ebay doesnt care. Its going to take lawmakers and the feds to reign in on ebay before anything will ever change.

You can also get help from law enforcement as well. In one case, authorities went straight to the buyers home and arrested them, stating they had previous convictions for similar crimes and had probable cause to charge them.