The final ending to my buyer who claimed he received an empty box

[cellit]

3/15 - 0 feedback buyer claimed on paypal dispute that I sent him empty box with 800$ item missing.

3/15 - I reply to dispute ( neither side can really prove the box was empty) stating the buyer is fraudulent and the package was delivered and signed for.

3/15 - buyer raises claim to paypal support.

3/21 - buyer is refunded in full (809$) , paypal emails me saying he submitted sufficient evidence to prove he received nothing (uhhh how do you prove that? that's another story though) and 809$ is taken from my account.

3/23 - I call up paypal, me and the rep file an appeal stating "if the box was empty why did the global shipping program reship a box full of air to another country".

3/24 - claim is denied no reason given.

3/25 - I call up paypal reps again, and the rep puts in request for me to get a courtesy credit 

3/26 - paypal refunds me out of pocket (even though they believe I'm wrong)

sellers - this is the scenario that might play out if you are also scammed.

"$809.95 USD;PayPal Posting Date:Mar 26, 2019;Payment from paypal;As a one-time goodwill gesture, we have issued a credit to your account. Thank you for using PayPal."

- one time huh, there goes my safety net for the next fraudulent buyer

[ultimate_collectables]

tough situation for ebay/paypal. i had a seller ship me an empty box before. luckily he realized and admitted it, but at 1st he swore up and down it wasnt empty, until he realized he grabbed wrong box and put label on it. he was beyond apologetic after he realized it was his fault. but the week prior to that was hell for me, him and ebay/paypal. 

unfortunatlypeople make mistakes and people lie. and people open packages and steal **bleep**. I know, i had a buddy who worked for Fed-ex and was fired for opening/stealing items in packages.  he wasnt too smart, they caught on empty packages getting files opened on were mainly coming off his truck. DUH!

either way OP, if a zero feedback buyer buys an item or a buyer with an acct not used in a very long time, dont take the risk, just cancel and refund them. you'll get real legit buyers later.  unfortuantlyyou cannot rely on ebay/paypal to protect you. 

[gamersbaystore]

I'm so glad to hear you got your money back. But despite the good outcome, your ordeal just further points out the rampant fraud committed by Paypal. They're truly thieves. I will never trust them after seeing what played out here.

[8uiboti_0]

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@sharingtheland wrote:

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@8uiboti_0 wrote:

So a buyer claims to have received an empty box...

What if ...

The seller packed the item, sealed the box, then accidentally grabbed the empty box right beside it...

We're talking an iphone, it's not terribly heavy, wouldn't be that hard...

And slip the label on and ship it off...

What if the seller did in fact ship an empty box?

Further...

Sellers always state the buyer is lying...

But what if a seller lies?

How do we really know who is telling the truth?

How would Paypal or ebay be able to make that distinction?

And is it really so smart to play jury trials on this discussion board?

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Your argument would have legs if this wasn't a GSP transaction.

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If the buyer opens a SNAD ebay first always holds the seller accountable and unfortunately I can not elaborate further as I do not know how this case played out , however I may throw out a guess such as perhaps the seller refused or failed to accept the return?

[clopesnyc]

If this was an international sale, it is a feasible possibility that the item was stolen from the box  once it reached the destination country. This is rampant in some countries. Packages get opened often when going through customs and an agent could have easily pocketed the item undetected. 

Also, if you drop your packages off inside the post office when shipping and stand in line for a scan, the employees are required to weigh the packages. Your scan receipt will always show the weight of the package with the tracking number. Keeping copies of these receipts could go a long way in helping out if a future case like this is ever opened showing that the box was indeed not empty. 

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@8uiboti_0 wrote:

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@sharingtheland wrote:

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@8uiboti_0 wrote:

So a buyer claims to have received an empty box...

What if ...

The seller packed the item, sealed the box, then accidentally grabbed the empty box right beside it...

We're talking an iphone, it's not terribly heavy, wouldn't be that hard...

And slip the label on and ship it off...

What if the seller did in fact ship an empty box?

Further...

Sellers always state the buyer is lying...

But what if a seller lies?

How do we really know who is telling the truth?

How would Paypal or ebay be able to make that distinction?

And is it really so smart to play jury trials on this discussion board?

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Your argument would have legs if this wasn't a GSP transaction.

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If the buyer opens a SNAD ebay first always holds the seller accountable and unfortunately I can not elaborate further as I do not know how this case played out , however I may throw out a guess such as perhaps the seller refused or failed to accept the return?

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Not with an item that goes through global shipping.  Damage or items missing after it’s forwarded from the gsp are the responsibility of the gsp.  eBay will decide in the sellers favor because the seller is not accountable after that point.  They will hold gsp responsible for refunding not the seller 

this was a paypal case though.  But the gsp was still supposed to be held responsible through PayPal as well 

[pjcdn2005]

Its possible that the reason PP made the courtesy refund that they realized they goofed up and at that point it may have been too late to contact the gsp. Although PP and ebay should automatically know when a claim was originally sent through the gsp, its been proven that they don't always notice it and in this case, its not clear whether the seller pointed that out to PP before the appeal. I'm not saying that it is right that the companies need to be prodded for gsp claims but it is in the sellers best interest to do so.

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Its possible that the reason PP made the courtesy refund that they realized they goofed up and at that point it may have been too late to contact the gsp. Although PP and ebay should automatically know when a claim was originally sent through the gsp, its been proven that they don't always notice it and in this case, its not clear whether the seller pointed that out to PP before the appeal. I'm not saying that it is right that the companies need to be prodded for gsp claims but it is in the sellers best interest to do so.

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I think you are probably right.

The whole entire point of using the GSP is for seller protection against INR and transit damage. It serves no other purpose.  As far as those two are concerned, once the seller gets their package intact to the GSP, they're done.

[sharingtheland]

If the buyer opens a SNAD ebay first always holds the seller accountable and unfortunately I can not elaborate further as I do not know how this case played out , however I may throw out a guess such as perhaps the seller refused or failed to accept the return?

Look up GSP rules and policies, and others have explained it here.

I agree that ebay always holds the seller accountable but not when the seller uses GSP.  At least, someone at paypal or ebay is supposed to realize it was a GSP transaction.   

I also agree that paypal didn't give a "courtesy" refund; paypal issued an "oh we goofed" refund but couldn't admit to that.

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

Its possible that the reason PP made the courtesy refund that they realized they goofed up and at that point it may have been too late to contact the gsp. Although PP and ebay should automatically know when a claim was originally sent through the gsp, its been proven that they don't always notice it and in this case, its not clear whether the seller pointed that out to PP before the appeal. I'm not saying that it is right that the companies need to be prodded for gsp claims but it is in the sellers best interest to do so.

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But even the appeal was denied after the seller mentioned it was gsp. The seller had to call again to get the courtesy refund