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Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accounts?

Need advice as this is my first experience with this issue:

I sold a football collectible for several hundred dollars recently - the listing clearly stated "no returns", "as-is", "ask questions", described the only flaw, and I provided multiple detailed photos.  It was sold as "ungraded" (not professionally assessed for condition).  The item was paid for, and mailed (received 28 days ago).  I got a message today from the buyer who claims (without proof) he took it to get graded and the company told him the item was altered (to enhance condition).  This is absolutely not true.  He is asking for a full or parital refund.  I believe the buyer just has remorse - the item is from the losing team in the superbowl, and the going prices on similar items dropped significantly afterwards.   I have just read up on the misleading "no return" and MBG issues for sellers, and I'm dismayed.  I am pretty sure he'll file a claim, just within the 30 days.  If so, how and what can I do to successfully challenge this?  Can he claim the item is "not as described", when it was clearly sold as ungraded and I included clear photos and descriptions?  How can I protect my ebay and paypal accounts?  Should I disconnect my credit card from my paypal account so my personal finances are not messed with if ebay decides in his favor?  I have been on ebay for 19 years and have 100% feedback with over 2,000 transactions.  A return of this amount would be a huge hit to my finances.  Thanks for any advice!

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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou

Tell the buyer to return for refund. If they are a partial refund scammer they will probably go away.

Buyers are NOT required to send any proof of their claims.

If the buyer wants to return it you have NO CHOICE but to accept the return.
If you fight it and the buyer asks ebay to step in you can lose the card and the cash.

Take the card back. Brady will win another Super Bowl. Get the card graded and resell it when he does
Message 31 of 51
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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou

Hello @lauralemur,

I have had two cases where the buyer said the item was not as described, and I have won both cases. In my business policies, I do accept returns but the buyer has to pay return shipping. The first case was the buyer claiming that the item wasn't sealed and that there was very little product in the jar. I simply asked for photo proof from the buyer because I had sent photos to eBay showing the sealed product beside the package I mailed it in that showed the buyers name, address, etc. eBay asked them for photo proof, and they never answered them, so they closed the case in my favor. The second time it was a fairly valuable item $170, and the buyer sent photos of a very beat up item and claimed they had received it that way. It looked like they had either had buyers remorse and beat the thing up thinking that would be the only thing they needed to do to get their money back for the item or they had one that quit working, beat it up, replaced it with mine, and ask for their money back. I messaged them back through eBay messages and politely explained that the item didn't leave here in that condition and apologized if the post office had damaged the package during delivery, but that my business policies stated the buyer was responsible for return shipping. I explained that if they would like to return the item, I would be happy to issue a refund to them and would file an insurance claim with the post office. After I had not heard from the buyer for a few days in response, I contacted eBay and explained that I had sent a message (eBay looked at the message) and had not heard back from the buyer. This is after they had requested a refund through eBay because they didn't even try to contact me first. I explained to eBay that my description did say that there was a light surface scratch on the lid and would not come in the original packaging, but that was exactly why I listed it as New(other) not Brand New. I also explained that the photos from the listing were mine, not stock photos that showed exactly what condition it was in when it left here. eBay agreed and opened a case on my behalf and told the buyer they would have to send the item back to me at their cost. Can you guess what happened? They never responded to eBay and never sent the item back, so after 10 days eBay closed that case in my favor because the buyer didn't upload tracking information within 10 days. I didn't even have to call them back. Literally two hours after I filed the case they automatically closed it due to the buyer being non-respondent. I did notice that both times the buyer had little to no feedback because they were new to eBay or hadn't bought much from eBay. Since I tried to work with the buyer, even before the case was decided in my favor, eBay sent me a message that the outcome of the case wouldn't affect my seller performance. 

 

My point to telling you all this is don't just roll over and play dead. Since you don't accept returns and put all the necessary information in the listing including that you had never had it graded, I would call eBay and ask for proof that the card was in fact graded and that it was the opinion of the professional grader that the item had been altered to enhance condition since he stated that in his reason for wanting to return the item in the first place. I would tell them that if he does have that proof and wants to return the item to you at his cost (again state that you normally wouldn't offer to accept a return), you would be happy to refund his money. However, I would be clear that the card needs to be in the same condition in which it was sent. If you used your own pics, there is your proof of condition or enough so that eBay may very well decide in your favor. Hope this helps!

 

Lezlie 

pittie_love
Message 32 of 51
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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou


@lauralemurwrote:
Also - I received the guy's message yesterday and didn't write back yet - is there a timeframe for responding before ebay considers me "nonresponsive"? Since I am close to the 30 days, should I try to delay the process past that point by sending a message saying "I am looking into ebay's process/policy" or "please send me more information"? Maybe if he thinks he might get a partial refund he'll wait and the time limit will expire - or am I being naive?

If he doesn't open a case on Ebay within 30 days, he can still open a case on Pay Pal for 180 days.

 

 

 

Have a great day
Message 33 of 51
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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou


@lauralemurwrote:
Ugh - thanks. An expensive lesson. Not looking to do anything shady on my end, just figuring out if I can protect myself or properly challenge it...has anyone at all successfully fought and won? I appreciate everyone's insight. Ebay will lose me as a seller (I know, they don't care). If I accept a return - is there a way to prevent being ripped off - requiring USPS insurance/tracking?

If they claim the item is not as described, there isn't much you can do, but get the item back and refund.

 

 

 

Have a great day
Message 34 of 51
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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou


@flyerfandan999wrote:

I don't necessarily agree with most of the other posters to this topic who seem to be advocating a "bend over" approach where you would just accept the return and refund, or offer a partial return.  I don't see where you did anything other than deliver to the Buyer in a timely manner the item that was described in the listing.  The Buyer has told you they had a grading service look at the card, but they have yet to prove that.  They claim the grading service says the card was altered to enhance condition, which has yet to be proven, but even if that were true, the "enhanced condition" is the condition at which the card was presented in your listing and was good enough to be purchased by the Buyer, so it's immaterial to eBay's standard of delivering  items in as described condition.


If the card was altered to enhance the condition and was not described as, then the item would be Not As Described.

 

 

 

 

Have a great day
Message 35 of 51
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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou


@maudmille-1wrote:
Tell the buyer to return for refund. If they are a partial refund scammer they will probably go away.

Buyers are NOT required to send any proof of their claims.

If the buyer wants to return it you have NO CHOICE but to accept the return.
If you fight it and the buyer asks ebay to step in you can lose the card and the cash.

Take the card back. Brady will win another Super Bowl. Get the card graded and resell it when he does

Not sure what you mean by Buyers are not required to send proof. I require it. They don't send it, means I called thier bluff. If they do send it and it's seems legit makes a difference on what action I take. If a case like this goes to court and the buyer is making this claim, some one is going to want to see that appraisal.

If I was sure that I was going to get that card back I would say return for refund but unfortunatly taking a return on this item is a roll of the dice!

 

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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou


@marinermikeswrote:

@maudmille-1wrote:
Tell the buyer to return for refund. If they are a partial refund scammer they will probably go away.

Buyers are NOT required to send any proof of their claims.

If the buyer wants to return it you have NO CHOICE but to accept the return.
If you fight it and the buyer asks ebay to step in you can lose the card and the cash.

Take the card back. Brady will win another Super Bowl. Get the card graded and resell it when he does

Not sure what you mean by Buyers are not required to send proof. I require it. They don't send it, means I called thier bluff. If they do send it and it's seems legit makes a difference on what action I take. If a case like this goes to court and the buyer is making this claim, some one is going to want to see that appraisal.

If I was sure that I was going to get that card back I would say return for refund but unfortunatly taking a return on this item is a roll of the dice!

 


Just because YOU require it doesn't mean EBAY requires it.

 

If you don't accept the return and the buyer escalates, you will have no say so in the matter. EBAY will refund the buyer, you won't get your stuff back and you'll receive an unresolved case strike. Any debate as to the validity of the return will be afterwards in the form of a dispute, and your chances of winning one of those, while not zero, is very slim.

The easier you are to offend the easier you are to control.


We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did. - Thomas Sowell
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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou

There isnt a chance he sent it anywhere to be graded.  I sent cards off to be graded in the beginning of december and I have heard 0 from the place.  In order to have it graded that fast he would have to pony up a lot of cash and he doesnt seem like the kind that would do it.  You are looking at least a 12 week turnaround for most reputable places.

Wherever you go, there you are. Please remember, when you are asked if you are a god, you say yes.
Message 38 of 51
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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou

So, If I understand correctly, the buyer has not asked to return the item, he is just asking for a refund, either full, or partial? In cases like this, I try to be as couteous as possible, however I do try to get as much information from the buyer as I can about the issue. In your case, I would ask that he send a copy of the " professional evaluation" I doubt there is one, or I would ask him to detail what enhancements were specifically found. At this point, he either goes away, or his next move will be to open a snad, assuming he hasn't already done so. In this case you must accept the return. If you don't, Ebay will most likely rule in his favor, and issue a refund. Once the case is open, but before refunding though, call Ebay, discuss the issue with a customer service rep. There is a possibility they may call this a buyer's remorse situation (which I am sure it is). The buyer could still turn to Paypal, there is no such thing as no returns with Paypal, however he will have to return the item to get the refund. In the end, if he does open a case, the easiest, least risk action will be to accept a return and refund. This is one situation that I believe is going to happen more and more once the "free returns" policy kicks in. 

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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou


@mikeystoyzwrote:

There isnt a chance he sent it anywhere to be graded.  I sent cards off to be graded in the beginning of december and I have heard 0 from the place.  In order to have it graded that fast he would have to pony up a lot of cash and he doesnt seem like the kind that would do it.  You are looking at least a 12 week turnaround for most reputable places.


Maybe they live where they can get it done...

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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou


@kensgiftshopwrote:

@flyerfandan999wrote:

I don't necessarily agree with most of the other posters to this topic who seem to be advocating a "bend over" approach where you would just accept the return and refund, or offer a partial return.  I don't see where you did anything other than deliver to the Buyer in a timely manner the item that was described in the listing.  The Buyer has told you they had a grading service look at the card, but they have yet to prove that.  They claim the grading service says the card was altered to enhance condition, which has yet to be proven, but even if that were true, the "enhanced condition" is the condition at which the card was presented in your listing and was good enough to be purchased by the Buyer, so it's immaterial to eBay's standard of delivering  items in as described condition.


If the card was altered to enhance the condition and was not described as, then the item would be Not As Described. 


Your statement is illogical.  How can an item be "Not As described" if it is EXACTLY as described?  eBay's rules do not care how an item arrived at, or came to be in, the condition it is in when it is listed----the only standard is, does it get to the Buyer in the same condition as described in the listing.

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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou


@pittie_lovewrote:

Hello @lauralemur,

I have had two cases where the buyer said the item was not as described, and I have won both cases. In my business policies, I do accept returns but the buyer has to pay return shipping. The first case ...


You, the seller, would be paying return shipping if the buyer files SNAD and wins on ebay. 

 

There is no 'buyer pays return shipping on a SNAD' exception just because you accept returns and say that. The ebay MBG overrides that.

 

 

_____________________________
"Nothing is obvious to the oblivious"
Message 42 of 51
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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou

No, eBay does not force the refund AND let the buyer keep the item. The item MUST be returned for refund. I don't know why people keep making this untrue statement, please provide a link or show us where this is stated in eBay policy.

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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou


@classic_luxewrote:

No, eBay does not force the refund AND let the buyer keep the item. The item MUST be returned for refund. I don't know why people keep making this untrue statement, please provide a link or show us where this is stated in eBay policy.


Yes, ebay does that when a seller refuses to accept a return or pay for return shipping, and in other situations. Its a true statement. Its written in the MBG under "when an item isn't returned to a seller"--https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html#description

 

 

"

When an item isn't returned to the seller

In some instances, we may not require that an item be returned to the seller. In these situations, we refund the buyer and may seek reimbursement from the seller, for example if:

  • The seller chooses not to accept a return request or provide a return shipping label.

  • The item location was misrepresented.

  • It's hazardous to ship back the item.

  • The item no longer has a value (for instance, a ticket for a cancelled event)."



One life is all we have to live
Love is all we have to give

**Formerly known as MissJen316**
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Re: Successfully challenge return on "no return" item and protect my eBay and Paypal accou

I learnd the hard way, just as you did. I am still waiting for the final outcome in my case though ebay already said (in not so many words) I will have to refund the money even if I get an empty envelope back from the seller. Moving forward what you can do is :

1.  when an item sells click on the buyers name and see how long they have been on ebay and how many      feedbacks they have.

2. you can send a message to the other sellers they bought from and ask if that buyer requested a                 refund and if so, what was the outcome (did every thing go smoothly, did they get the product back           the way it shoul be)

3.  If the buyer is new (6 months for me) you can cancel the sale if you don't feel good about it.

4.  just remember--- If a buyer says "item was not as described" you will have to refund the money.

 

There are other things I can tell you but not on here. You can message me directly if you want.

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