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Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?

"Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned

Starting April 1, 2020, we will no longer close returns early at the request of a seller when the buyer has not shipped the item back. Instead, we will wait to ensure buyers have sufficient time to provide proof items they requested to return were shipped back. If we do not receive proof of shipment from your buyers while the return requests are active, we will protect you by removing any negative or neutral feedback left on that transaction."

 

So is eBay telling us that buyers no longer have a date for when they must return an item by if they open a return/request? This is getting crazy if this is how I am reading this. This is sad if true, they already get 7 days to upload tracking on top of when they must return it. You get some of the sly buyers that know how to work the system to even get an extension. My returns the last 2 months have been out of control, with people incorrectly opening them up and me having to take the time to get them reported so the service metrics don't mess our account up.

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Re: Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?

"...and so we have arrived at the real issue at the heart of it all.
Ebay has been trying to make a "one-size-fits-all" platform and it has exploded to many failures"

I agree with the entirety of your post : )
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Re: Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?

exactly. ebay is trying to apply standards and measures that work for a predictable manufacturing type of business to a platform that where the differences among sellers are often bigger than the similarities. the products range from a to z. .. statistical measurements are for measuring , quantifiable, similar , predictable processes. ebay is none of that.. the only thing that ebay should be controlling and trying to perfect is their search engine and item specific nightmare that is still not fixed.
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Re: Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?

Your brick and mortar stores wont refund if the buyer tries to send back an empty box or substitute a different item.  Only on eBay does that.

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Re: Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?


@lasantino wrote:

,

i meant to say,, lots of business is done on saturday and sundays.    most calendar holidays are also days that most companies are open for business.. especially online businesses..  the fact is, ebay uses false logic for most of it's arguments.   saturday and sunday are not workdays for most big companies.  sunday has not been until amazon a day that the us mail provided delivery.  gov't and schools.. they are closed on weekends.  

If ebay chooses to count or not count weekends as business days for buyers. then they need to not count saturdays and sundays as business days for sellers.  


They don't count Saturday and Sunday as business days for sellers.  I have a three-day handling time; if I sell something on a Thursday, eBay does not expect me to ship it until the following Wednesday.

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Re: Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?


@mobley120 wrote:

"I feel like this is what they are pushing towards is 60 day returns being the standard policy for eBay. Yet another seller update a total lack of seller protections. This is why this company is on a total down slope, we can't be giving everything away for free or pennies on the dollar."

 

Looking at the below numbers, such can give some insight on why eBay is moving in the direction they're moving in... Last check "which was yesterday" eBay's growth is flat-lining. But I do not believe they are too much concerned about it, as they're banking on the market value of mid to large size businesses and the sales of NEW product rather than flea market type product. And it's quite obvious eBay is weeding-out the mom and pop stores, but they're also trying to skim every dime that they can skim off of mom and pop as they weed them out.

 

Percentage of NEW items sold on eBay: 80 plus percent

 

Active buyers on eBay: 183 million

 

Numbers of listings: roughly 1.2 billion

 

Average number of packages being shipped daily in the U.S. by eBay sellers:

1.5 million      


Only 183 million active buyers? Don't get me wrong, it's a sizable market. Just that in a world of nearly 7.8 billion I might expect more than 2.3% marketshare. 

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Re: Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?


@threshold.sales.group wrote:

Good question. Would love to know if it also applies to remorse returns?  

 

I also forgot to note earlier that the new policy for sellers providing their own shipping label is that the return window is now full 30 working days from the start of the claim to have any carrier scan show up. 


I read the update earlier today. Somewhere in there, it mentioned that eBay's intent after June 1 is to force sellers to use eBay shipping:

 

"In order to protect you from “Item not received” claims filed through eBay Money Back Guarantee, starting June 1, 2020, we’ll require you to use shipping carriers that are integrated with eBay and provide regular shipment scans. We’ll also publish a list of recommended eBay-integrated carriers that offer tracked services."

 

So, this step seems to be right in line with that goal. 

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Re: Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?


@earlyant-77 wrote:

EBay active buyers: 180 million plus. EBay employees: 12 thousand plus.

Amazon active buyers: 100 million plus. Amazon employees: 560 thousand plus.

Etsy active buyers: 39 million plus. Etsy employees:  1 thousand plus.   

 

Well, Amazon has many warehouses, so that's where a lot of the employees are. And Amazon doesn't have thousands of people creating 5, 10, 100 user ID's. Nor does Etsy.

Ebay, though, is definitely overstating the 'active buyers' - I'd bet they include sellers in that number, including probably 80 million chinese seller ID's(for probably 4-8 million actual sellers) who never buy anything.

 


Let's not forget that Amazon's retail BU consistently loses money, is subsidized by their advertising and cloud computing BUs, that Amazon prices are generally higher, and that a huge portion of Amazon customers subsidize their shipping costs up-front with a yearly prime membership at $120 a pop. 

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Re: Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?


@mobley120 wrote:

"Well, Amazon has many warehouses, so that's where a lot of the employees are. And Amazon doesn't have thousands of people creating 5, 10, 100 user ID's. Nor does Etsy.

Ebay, though, is definitely overstating the 'active buyers' - I'd bet they include sellers in that number, including probably 80 million chinese seller ID's(for probably 4-8 million actual sellers) who never buy anything."

 

Yeah, you're posting a good point.

 

It's just that the type of policies that eBay is enacting are matching-up to entities like Amazon, Kohl's; etc. And, eBay never physically touches any of the items.  In essence eBay is acting as if they own the sellers? And yeah, Amazon own many warehouses, that's the point; they can adsorb the cost of returns. 

 

EBay doesn't have to adsorb anything, they just force it onto the sellers; in my world that's called?      


Coercion & illegal use of contract labor as full time employees without providing benefits or minimum wage. 

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Re: Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?


@nuclearomen wrote:

@mobley120 wrote:

"For all we know there maybe already some such group that works with ebay etc.,"

 

I agree with your post, like in, get the policies sound before implementing them and furthermore, eBay could take-in consideration "all" sellers, not just the top tiers.       


...and so we have arrived at the real issue at the heart of it all. 💥🌟🎉

Ebay has been trying to make a "one-size-fits-all" platform and it has exploded to many failures. A lot of people say "Ebay just wants to be Amazon"... and while I do not believe that, even Ebay is aware of universe of differences between the two platforms, but i do feel that they believe they can mirror Amazon's policies and practices to a point and have been trying to implement that strategy. But it doesn't and will never work for the kind of platform and company Ebay is. Mainly because as you well know, and others have stated above, Ebay sells nothing except spot on their platform while Amazon actually distributes merchandise, both of their own and for 3rd party sellers and allows 3rd party sellers to sell on their own without FBA assistance... HUGE differences here and reasons why Amazon has such policies, but Ebay doesn't need all those like-minded policies as again, they sell nothing, handle no merchandise and to them the "free returns" means nothing but perhaps ebay try to sell some merch for once and undergo all the stresses, confusions, one-sides to buyer favored policies. : i.e. item returned from buy damaged / item not returned from buyer but ebay issued them refund out my account anyways / item returned from but it's not the item they were sent but a used broken item of the same make and successfully got away with it / item returned but return postage was charged at USPS Priority Mail instead of for example Media Mail how it was sent to buyer, now I'm out cost they paid, cost for me to ship item to them, and the cost to pay postage of return that cost 3-4x the amount it does to send the original method.... you get the point

Ebay is a platform that can exceed itself with improvements over the years, but instead they are hung up with tailoring their business to mirror other platforms and it's never going to work... you can't have a one size for all policy with a platform that has many different types of sellers from really large corps, to drop shippers, to mom and pop, to part time sellers, to full time sellers but not huge like corp size sellers....   policies have to be made to meet all these different kinds of sellers... it's not easy, I understand, I even sometimes feel bad for complaining, but it just seems like they can't understand all this.


Amazon retail BU basically operates like a grocery store. Vendors rent shelf space in the store and Amazon takes a portion of those profits. This is why you will walk into as grocery store and see vendors like Pepsi, Coke, Miller, Wonder Bread, etc inside the store stocking shelves, themselves, with their own people. In all cases, Amazon treats the people who sell there as suppliers and has similar standards to a retail store in terms of controlling the supply chain. Additionally, Amazon may compete with the vendors with its own brands (generic store brands) and also purchase and stock other brands that it is reselling, itself. Amazon also takes on all other aspects of the transaction including customer service, management, checkouts, card processing, etc. 

 

eBay is more like a shopping mall. Vendors rent space in the venue (eBay stores, ad space) but does not control the supply chain. eBay provides the hosting space and mechanisms to transact, and effectively charges the vendors a percentage rent for doing so. Vendors use an outside company to process credit transactions, manage all items themselves, process all transactions themselves, etc. 

 

eBay seems to be attempting to transition into the "grocery store" model. Mom & pop don't sell in the "grocery store" without the backing of a larger corp.

 

All of us "small sellers" (anyone less than $1M/yr) are being externalized.

 

 

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Re: Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?


@lasantino wrote:

 

ebay always throws out this "meeting the industry standard" ,, as an excuse to require sellers to jump through another hoop.  The statement in and of itself, without qualifiers is meaningless . what industry.. whose standards.. .. ebay deals with products all over the industry spectrum. different standards for different industry segments.  What is most infuriating to long time sellers.. isn't that things keep changing.. .. change is inevitable.

I'm not sure where eBay gets its idea of "industry standards." For instance, they claim "free returns" to be an "industry standard" but 85% of retailers do not offer "free returns."

 

Rather, I think eBay thinks its a "market maker" and is entitled to set "industry standards" itself. IMHO this is a vestige of earlier, better times for eBay. eBay once was the top dog in eCommerce and could probably "call the shots" but that's not the case anymore. eBay's board hasn't come to terms with this yet. 

 

Even Amazon is now charging for return shipments for non-prime customers. Returns can only be refunded up to $20 max, if at all. 

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Re: Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?


@yuzuha wrote:

@lasantino wrote:

,

i meant to say,, lots of business is done on saturday and sundays.    most calendar holidays are also days that most companies are open for business.. especially online businesses..  the fact is, ebay uses false logic for most of it's arguments.   saturday and sunday are not workdays for most big companies.  sunday has not been until amazon a day that the us mail provided delivery.  gov't and schools.. they are closed on weekends.  

If ebay chooses to count or not count weekends as business days for buyers. then they need to not count saturdays and sundays as business days for sellers.  


They don't count Saturday and Sunday as business days for sellers.  I have a three-day handling time; if I sell something on a Thursday, eBay does not expect me to ship it until the following Wednesday.


Sellers in a marketplace like this ought to be able to specify what their business days are. 

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Re: Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?


@equid0x wrote:

@nuclearomen wrote:

@mobley120 wrote:

"For all we know there maybe already some such group that works with ebay etc.,"

 

I agree with your post, like in, get the policies sound before implementing them and furthermore, eBay could take-in consideration "all" sellers, not just the top tiers.       


...and so we have arrived at the real issue at the heart of it all. 💥🌟🎉

Ebay has been trying to make a "one-size-fits-all" platform and it has exploded to many failures. A lot of people say "Ebay just wants to be Amazon"... and while I do not believe that, even Ebay is aware of universe of differences between the two platforms, but i do feel that they believe they can mirror Amazon's policies and practices to a point and have been trying to implement that strategy. But it doesn't and will never work for the kind of platform and company Ebay is. Mainly because as you well know, and others have stated above, Ebay sells nothing except spot on their platform while Amazon actually distributes merchandise, both of their own and for 3rd party sellers and allows 3rd party sellers to sell on their own without FBA assistance... HUGE differences here and reasons why Amazon has such policies, but Ebay doesn't need all those like-minded policies as again, they sell nothing, handle no merchandise and to them the "free returns" means nothing but perhaps ebay try to sell some merch for once and undergo all the stresses, confusions, one-sides to buyer favored policies. : i.e. item returned from buy damaged / item not returned from buyer but ebay issued them refund out my account anyways / item returned from but it's not the item they were sent but a used broken item of the same make and successfully got away with it / item returned but return postage was charged at USPS Priority Mail instead of for example Media Mail how it was sent to buyer, now I'm out cost they paid, cost for me to ship item to them, and the cost to pay postage of return that cost 3-4x the amount it does to send the original method.... you get the point

Ebay is a platform that can exceed itself with improvements over the years, but instead they are hung up with tailoring their business to mirror other platforms and it's never going to work... you can't have a one size for all policy with a platform that has many different types of sellers from really large corps, to drop shippers, to mom and pop, to part time sellers, to full time sellers but not huge like corp size sellers....   policies have to be made to meet all these different kinds of sellers... it's not easy, I understand, I even sometimes feel bad for complaining, but it just seems like they can't understand all this.


Amazon retail BU basically operates like a grocery store. Vendors rent shelf space in the store and Amazon takes a portion of those profits. This is why you will walk into as grocery store and see vendors like Pepsi, Coke, Miller, Wonder Bread, etc inside the store stocking shelves, themselves, with their own people. In all cases, Amazon treats the people who sell there as suppliers and has similar standards to a retail store in terms of controlling the supply chain. Additionally, Amazon may compete with the vendors with its own brands (generic store brands) and also purchase and stock other brands that it is reselling, itself. Amazon also takes on all other aspects of the transaction including customer service, management, checkouts, card processing, etc. 

 

eBay is more like a shopping mall. Vendors rent space in the venue (eBay stores, ad space) but does not control the supply chain. eBay provides the hosting space and mechanisms to transact, and effectively charges the vendors a percentage rent for doing so. Vendors use an outside company to process credit transactions, manage all items themselves, process all transactions themselves, etc. 

 

eBay seems to be attempting to transition into the "grocery store" model. Mom & pop don't sell in the "grocery store" without the backing of a larger corp.

 

All of us "small sellers" (anyone less than $1M/yr) are being externalized.

 

 


I worked for Amazon some years ago, I'm well aware of how they operate and make money and you didn't even scratch the surface of it. Ebay makes a large portion of their revenue outside the platform, in other investments but the platform is their main cookie. Point I was making is that ebay is trying to structure their policies to (closely) mirror that of other major players...Amazon is just one of them but Ebay is not like any of them so it's policies and focus should be unique to it's platform service and not tailored to others. Of course there will be similarities, that's inexorable and expected. 

The great truth is there isn't one
And it only gets worse since that conclusion...
...There is something about the rigid posture of a proper, authentic blind
As if extended arms reached to pass his blindness onto others.
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Re: Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?


@nuclearomen wrote:

I worked for Amazon some years ago, I'm well aware of how they operate and make money and you didn't even scratch the surface of it. Ebay makes a large portion of their revenue outside the platform, in other investments but the platform is their main cookie. Point I was making is that ebay is trying to structure their policies to (closely) mirror that of other major players...Amazon is just one of them but Ebay is not like any of them so it's policies and focus should be unique to it's platform service and not tailored to others. Of course there will be similarities, that's inexorable and expected. 

Perhaps you'd care to expound on the other ways in which Amazon operates and generates revenue? I'd be very interested in hearing from an insider more about how Amazon operates than that which I am currently aware. 

 

I'm aware of eBay's other investments, but like you said, eBay itself is their "main cookie." I agree that eBay needs to concentrate on creating policies that enhance eBay as its own platform rather than copying others. 

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@equid0x wrote:


Perhaps you'd care to expound on the other ways in which Amazon operates and generates revenue? I'd be very interested in hearing from an insider more about how Amazon operates than that which I am currently aware. 

 


Just as Ebay has investments and high stakes in other companies, so does Amazon, as of June 2019 (the ones I know of anyways) they own and are part of Amazon's revenue - Whole Foods Market / Ring / Zappos / PillPack Inc. / Twitch / Kiva Systems / Audible. They also make movies/tv series which are part of the Prime which is of course a separate service, they own Fire TV/Stick which has a huge revenue for them (I myself have 3 Fire Sticks), they make Kindle and they also have Amazon Retail Stores (but you pay with your cell phone instead of a cashier...it's like you load funds and use the app to pay)...there is more, but you can look it all up yourself. 

The great truth is there isn't one
And it only gets worse since that conclusion...
...There is something about the rigid posture of a proper, authentic blind
As if extended arms reached to pass his blindness onto others.
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Re: Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?

When I first started selling the majority of my listings were vintage or antique collectibles and I didn't accept returns. I also sold my pre-owned items. However, it was difficult to only sell in those categories as it's really a niche market. Over time I added some new items so the sales from them would offset the fees I paid to list collectibles. I still don't take returns as I list with very low prices. I feel that policies here are always set to benefit buyers and sellers continue to lose ground. For sellers that do take returns I don't understand why it's considered to be a defect. Major retailers expect returns as it's part of doing business. I don't know why eBay felt that they needed to double the return time frame window and yet the seller is still expected to refund within 48 hours. Just no longer a happy camper and I pulled almost all high value items so time ago. I no longer sell any consumer electronics or phones here as I don't want to deal with dishonest buyers. Meanwhile, I am slowly moving the sale of my items to other venues and sadly hope to be out of here by the end of the year.
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