Spring Update Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned?

[blacktopautoparts]

"Changes to handling return requests that appear abandoned

Starting April 1, 2020, we will no longer close returns early at the request of a seller when the buyer has not shipped the item back. Instead, we will wait to ensure buyers have sufficient time to provide proof items they requested to return were shipped back. If we do not receive proof of shipment from your buyers while the return requests are active, we will protect you by removing any negative or neutral feedback left on that transaction."

So is eBay telling us that buyers no longer have a date for when they must return an item by if they open a return/request? This is getting crazy if this is how I am reading this. This is sad if true, they already get 7 days to upload tracking on top of when they must return it. You get some of the sly buyers that know how to work the system to even get an extension. My returns the last 2 months have been out of control, with people incorrectly opening them up and me having to take the time to get them reported so the service metrics don't mess our account up.

[mr_lincoln]

@blacktopautoparts  

The policy change is too open ended from a time standpoint.  They need to fix a time limit.  A week to 10 days is plenty, after that close the claim in the Seller's favor. 

[bigdeals.etc]

On a related topic, if this policy gets implemented right now it would be chaos because of a current glitch.

For the past week or two, ebay hasn't been able to know that the buyer created the postage label or shipped it out. So many returns I have show that the buyer hasn't shipped it back yet and I see them show up at my door (with ebay generated postage return labels). I asked ebay about this... because it will really tick off buyers if sellers close the returns out because of this. Ebay says they know this is a site wide glitch. On a flip side, it seems buyers can ask ebay to step in prematurely too... and win, thus giving us defects and losing FVFs.

[nuclearomen]

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@bigdeals.etc wrote:

On a related topic, if this policy gets implemented right now it would be chaos because of a current glitch.

For the past week or two, ebay hasn't been able to know that the buyer created the postage label or shipped it out. So many returns I have show that the buyer hasn't shipped it back yet and I see them show up at my door (with ebay generated postage return labels). I asked ebay about this... because it will really tick off buyers if sellers close the returns out because of this. Ebay says they know this is a site wide glitch. On a flip side, it seems buyers can ask ebay to step in prematurely too... and win, thus giving us defects and losing FVFs.

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Not sure if you mean tracking just for return label but when you issue a return label there is tracking number, that tracking may not be working through ebay but it certainly does through USPS tracking site, I had return last month and the ebay tracking on that was very slow to update, when the packaged arrived ebay's tracking said it was still in transit, I called ebay and had them confirm delivered via USPS tracking in order to just cover the steps before I refunded the buyer. 

[lasantino]

This is part and parcel the problem..   WHY COULDN'T SOMEONE SET UP A PANEL OF EXPERIENCED SELLERS TO REVIEW THE SPRING SELLER UPDATE BEFORE IT WAS RELEASED.. THOSE SELLERS WOULD HAVE IMMEDIATLY RAISED THIS ISSUE... 

EBAY'S CONTINUAL  ORGANIZATIONAL WORK FLOW PROCESS IS CLEARLY FLAWED... 

Ebay basically shoots first asks questions later.  Its not the first time has happened.   Continued problems surface immediately after ebay makes changes.  Here's my analogy

 So ebay acknowledges that shoot first ask questions later in not an effective way to implement changes.  

someone decides to add a layer of checks before shooting.   so now a group spends time giong over the gun making sure it's clean and ready shoot.  They missed the whole point... how about asking questions before you shoot!..   so ebay says, oh good idea.  They add another layer to the pre roll out stage.. Now they form another group inside ebay that will go and talk to the person in question and find out what he is doing.

guess what happens then.  ebay shoots the guy.  Despite the group having been formed to gather information from the person in question(about to be shot). Despite the group knowing the guy was not a threat.  Ebay didn't set up a process to coordinate the information flow from the group to the shooter.. 

It's just the most back-asward ineffective process control i've every seen in a big company.  

ebay.. how about instead of forming groups ad nauseum that only add layers that confuse an issue.  how about before you shoot.. you ask the guy,, what are you doing here..    oh, ebay says it needs to protect itself from being overtaken by other markets.  NO PROBLEM EBAY.  stand behind a wall and yell at the guy,hey what are you doing here..  THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.    

@Anonymous 

trinton, I can only imagine how stressful your job must be.  Just tell us point blank, please don't double speak or corporate mumbo jumbo.  Is there any person that can actually make changes to the pre implementation process.  Or is ebay such a hodge podge of layer after layer after layer of well meaning management groups  without any ability to act.   Something has got to change. Its not just the actual changes or announcements that ebay makes . It's the seeming lack of the critical "test run" .  And critical to the test run is who is doing the test run!!..  a well meaning test run doesn't do one lick of good if you have people doing the test run that aren't familiar with the nooks and crannies of how things should work.

[nuclearomen]

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@lasantino wrote:

This is part and parcel the problem..   WHY COULDN'T SOMEONE SET UP A PANEL OF EXPERIENCED SELLERS TO REVIEW THE SPRING SELLER UPDATE BEFORE IT WAS RELEASED.. THOSE SELLERS WOULD HAVE IMMEDIATLY RAISED THIS ISSUE... 

EBAY'S CONTINUAL  ORGANIZATIONAL WORK FLOW PROCESS IS CLEARLY FLAWED... 

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For all we know there maybe already some such group that works with ebay...but despite the fact, the idea shouldn't HAVE TO need any such group, ebay hires and pays these people who are suppose to be intelligent, experienced and knowledgeable... in the real word it called QUALIFIED to be in the position they are in and deserve to be making the salaries they are paid to do that job...so the issue really is not if ebay needs to have a group of experienced sellers to "review" their work, the issue is that ebay needs to hire competent personnel for these positions and to do their jobs as expected...

And I know some of them do, I understand it's not easy and it's hard, complicated and challenging, especially when it's not involved to only one person but many people, maybe it's communications issue, idk, but thing should never be implemented just to roll out by XX/XX/XXXX date, they should be reviewed, discussed, reviewed, discussed etc... till it's right first time. 

[mobley120]

"For all we know there maybe already some such group that works with ebay etc.,"

I agree with your post, like in, get the policies sound before implementing them and furthermore, eBay could take-in consideration "all" sellers, not just the top tiers.

But it surely appears eBay is weeding-out the lower tiers, it's almost like eBay no-longer wants to be a market place for used items; the new money management program seems to also be geared in that sense. I would surmise, in the future eBay will do away with the auction style format. 

EBay's marketing research may indeed come from outside entities and they may also have outside team advisers.

Nevertheless the following numbers are quite odd and seem to be off-balance in the light of what eBay is implementing:

EBay active buyers: 180 million plus. EBay employees: 12 thousand plus.

Amazon active buyers: 100 million plus. Amazon employees: 560 thousand plus.

Etsy active buyers: 39 million plus. Etsy employees:  1 thousand plus.            

I guess by looking at the above numbers one can see why there's such a wait to speak with an eBay rep and when one does reach that rep, it's for nothing, the rep simply follows a pre-rehearsed script that's totally geared towards the buyers.

I added etsy in the above but etsy seems to be more of a "homemade type product market place and they really don't suit the gest of the off-balancing of eBay's numbers, but "I guess" eBay's projected picture of the future indicates some type of balance in what they're doing, but I don't see it and I'm not going to keep losing money to find-out. Oh, I am going to keep an eye on things, but that's about it. After all was said and done, I lost money with eBay last year.

Maybe, in eBay's theory growth really isn't that important. Just maximize profit through flawed policies and employ little to non. I wonder: these type of policies surely invite scammers; such is undeniable, but do they also allow manipulation of the share holders: I wonder?         

[dede394]

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@lasantino wrote:

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@dede394 wrote:

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@lasantino wrote:

If a buyer opened a return request, they had 5 business days. but ebay's goofy way of counting meant if a buyer opened  a request on friday,, ebay doesn't count that as a day, and they don't count saturday or sunday. so monday would be day 1. so basically they buyer had 8 days(including the day the request was open). 

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This level of misunderstanding is unfortunate.

1. The day [a return] starts is excluded; it's not a full day.

2. Saturdays, Sundays, and all holidays are not business days.

IM SORRY,,  saturday and sunday are not holidays.. it's not the 1950's.

I didn't misunderstand anything. 

Perhaps read it again, and don't misquote:

- Saturdays,

- Sundays, and

- all holidays

are not business days.

[earlyant-77]

EBay active buyers: 180 million plus. EBay employees: 12 thousand plus.

Amazon active buyers: 100 million plus. Amazon employees: 560 thousand plus.

Etsy active buyers: 39 million plus. Etsy employees:  1 thousand plus.   

Well, Amazon has many warehouses, so that's where a lot of the employees are. And Amazon doesn't have thousands of people creating 5, 10, 100 user ID's. Nor does Etsy.

Ebay, though, is definitely overstating the 'active buyers' - I'd bet they include sellers in that number, including probably 80 million chinese seller ID's(for probably 4-8 million actual sellers) who never buy anything.

[dasarock]

why are updates so vague?  because ebay itself only has a vague idea of how they are going to implement track and apply each aspect of the updates.  in addition to the fact that all said coding for such updates has either not been completed and or debugged at time of published updates.  (as shown by past updates and errors)

[mobley120]

"Well, Amazon has many warehouses, so that's where a lot of the employees are. And Amazon doesn't have thousands of people creating 5, 10, 100 user ID's. Nor does Etsy.

Ebay, though, is definitely overstating the 'active buyers' - I'd bet they include sellers in that number, including probably 80 million chinese seller ID's(for probably 4-8 million actual sellers) who never buy anything."

Yeah, you're posting a good point.

It's just that the type of policies that eBay is enacting are matching-up to entities like Amazon, Kohl's; etc. And, eBay never physically touches any of the items.  In essence eBay is acting as if they own the sellers? And yeah, Amazon own many warehouses, that's the point; they can adsorb the cost of returns. 

EBay doesn't have to adsorb anything, they just force it onto the sellers; in my world that's called?      

[mycheaperstuff]

Where did you hear or read that eBay would remove return requests from seller metric for not using the label? Also, return requests for anything other than a SNAD (including all of the various reasons considered SNAD) have never been included in the service metric.

[vintagecraze50]

Thanks for clarifying that info. I send return labels automatically so this will help so I do not have to keep calling Ebay to close these when there is no indication that the buyer has intentions to return or a scan showing such info.

[melissa5282013]

Key phrase-“if you don’t pay eBay for the shipping labels.”

[nuclearomen]

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@mobley120 wrote:

"For all we know there maybe already some such group that works with ebay etc.,"

I agree with your post, like in, get the policies sound before implementing them and furthermore, eBay could take-in consideration "all" sellers, not just the top tiers.       

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...and so we have arrived at the real issue at the heart of it all. 💥🌟✨🎉

Ebay has been trying to make a "one-size-fits-all" platform and it has exploded to many failures. A lot of people say "Ebay just wants to be Amazon"... and while I do not believe that, even Ebay is aware of universe of differences between the two platforms, but i do feel that they believe they can mirror Amazon's policies and practices to a point and have been trying to implement that strategy. But it doesn't and will never work for the kind of platform and company Ebay is. Mainly because as you well know, and others have stated above, Ebay sells nothing except spot on their platform while Amazon actually distributes merchandise, both of their own and for 3rd party sellers and allows 3rd party sellers to sell on their own without FBA assistance... HUGE differences here and reasons why Amazon has such policies, but Ebay doesn't need all those like-minded policies as again, they sell nothing, handle no merchandise and to them the "free returns" means nothing but perhaps ebay try to sell some merch for once and undergo all the stresses, confusions, one-sides to buyer favored policies. : i.e. item returned from buy damaged / item not returned from buyer but ebay issued them refund out my account anyways / item returned from but it's not the item they were sent but a used broken item of the same make and successfully got away with it / item returned but return postage was charged at USPS Priority Mail instead of for example Media Mail how it was sent to buyer, now I'm out cost they paid, cost for me to ship item to them, and the cost to pay postage of return that cost 3-4x the amount it does to send the original method.... you get the point

Ebay is a platform that can exceed itself with improvements over the years, but instead they are hung up with tailoring their business to mirror other platforms and it's never going to work... you can't have a one size for all policy with a platform that has many different types of sellers from really large corps, to drop shippers, to mom and pop, to part time sellers, to full time sellers but not huge like corp size sellers....   policies have to be made to meet all these different kinds of sellers... it's not easy, I understand, I even sometimes feel bad for complaining, but it just seems like they can't understand all this.

[lasantino]

,

i meant to say,, lots of business is done on saturday and sundays.    most calendar holidays are also days that most companies are open for business.. especially online businesses..  the fact is, ebay uses false logic for most of it's arguments.   saturday and sunday are not workdays for most big companies.  sunday has not been until amazon a day that the us mail provided delivery.  gov't and schools.. they are closed on weekends.  

If ebay chooses to count or not count weekends as business days for buyers. then they need to not count saturdays and sundays as business days for sellers.   if ebay doesn't allow sellers to get a return closed until 3 weeks after a return is started without a scan showing in the system. Then let sellers have 3 weeks to process  returns.  the problem is, ebay has a very strict , completely arbitrary set of rules for sellers but buyers get every benefit of the doubt .   

ebay always throws out this "meeting the industry standard" ,, as an excuse to require sellers to jump through another hoop.  The statement in and of itself, without qualifiers is meaningless . what industry.. whose standards.. .. ebay deals with products all over the industry spectrum. different standards for different industry segments.  What is most infuriating to long time sellers.. isn't that things keep changing.. .. change is inevitable.

it's the fact that 95% of the changes that ebay implements hurt the sellers bottom line potential. 

Basically ebay continues to stack the deck high for sellers . .  without equal changes and requirements for buyers.

it's called restraint of trade.

I want to be clear,, I stay with ebay because the traffic is still here.. I still am somehow able to conduct business..  and I have built a small viable business.    Leisure buyers buy and large still consider ebay the number one destination for anything and everything.   However, I no longer enjoy it. I don't recommend ebay to friends and family who are thinking of getting into reselling.  .If i hear the word ebay.. i do not smile. I roll my eyes.  The point is, all of the goodwill that longterm sellers had for ebay and the ebay company is by and large gone..  

the joy is gone.