Soocial security #

[vieuxjoyaux]

Hi

I am selling a lot of stuff accumulated through the years, I am not a business. I was happy to just get things out of my house, I really have too many things.

A while ago I inquired how to stay with paypal because I did not want to give my SS# to ebay. Here is what I was told: Thank you so much for your patience. What I will do here then is to send your account information to so that you will not be transitioned for the managed payments to keep using PayPal.

Then I received an new ebay mail telling me if I do not register I will not be able to make new sell. I contacted ebay through chatand this is what I was told:

Unfortunately this will be the new process for selling items on eBay. We will now permanently cut ties with PayPal. Your listing abilities will be restricted if you will not be opted in to Manage Payments.

Im sorry but that is correct , you can only continue using Paypal if you are listing items under categories such as Coins & paper money, gift cards & coupons, ebay motors other than that there is no option to opt out.

So can any one tell  why those people do not have to expose their SS#.

Thank you

does any one knows why some sells can still happen with paypal

[pburn]

Thanks for correcting my typos. 

[hurryagain]

I remember a few years back PayPal requiring the same info from sellers so seeing it from MP although totally annoying...not surprising given that PayPal situation back then. 

I will say that I had an easier feeling about giving PP that info since they have proven themselves to be trustworthy with my $$$ and my info... so far...

[pburn]

"Nor am I claiming ebay isn't under the preview [sic] of enforcement."

" . . . thread(and mentioned . . . "

" . . . question(which . . . "

Corollary of Muphry's Law: You correct mine and I'll correct yours.

[lightlily_arts]

While many small sellers are simply getting rid of surplus junk around the house eBay has no way of determining in advance whether a seller will achieve $20,000 in gross sales or 200 transactions in a year.     If a seller reaches that limit then they absolutely will need to issue the 1099-K.   That's the same guideline  which determines whether those state taxes that are being collected by eBay.  So that is the 1099-K rule in a nutshell. Not all marketplaces currently follow those rules, especially those marketplaces that pop-up overnight. These rules and laws didn't exist when eBay and Amazon got started back in the 1990's, in fact eBay and Amazon in particular are why these laws were created;  Times change and so do laws. These are the current guidelines from the IRS. 

Is eBay actually legally required to obtain your SSN?  No.  But what happens if you near that threshold?  Online marketplaces aren't going to sit there and review every single seller account and be held accountable with fines by the Federal Government when people slip through.  So they choose the one size fits all policy as it;s more efficient.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-news/reg-139255-08.pdf

[nobody*s_perfect]

" eBay has no way of determining in advance whether a seller will achieve $20,000 in gross sales or 200 transactions in a year.     If a seller reaches that limit then they absolutely will need to issue the 1099-K.  "

And they can't tell in advance if a seller is going to sell an item for $600 and move to Massachusetts on New Year's Eve.  With several states having that low threshold, eBay just can't take a chance on a seller slipping through.

[johnny8174]

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@hurryagain wrote:

I remember a few years back PayPal requiring the same info from sellers so seeing it from MP although totally annoying...not surprising given that PayPal situation back then. 

I will say that I had an easier feeling about giving PP that info since they have proven themselves to be trustworthy with my $$$ and my info... so far...

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Adyen actually handles payments for a lot of big companies, including Etsy. They're pretty solid.

[jayjaspersgarage]

"My question other wise was why are some people selling Coins & paper money, gift cards & coupons, ebay motors do not have to comply?"

Coin sellers like myself do have to comply or we don't get the extra 10,000 free listings.  

I have sold coins on ebay since Day One back in the early 1990s during Beta testing.  I just signed up for mangled payments because I get 10,000 free listings in the collectibles category so my worries over the auto relisting has gone away.  I suppose I lucked out in that payments will continue to go directly into my PayPal account until the switchover is complete later this year.  

Due to the pandemic my income has dropped 95% so I don't really mind following the rules for mangled payments.

[espresso_warehouse]

Yes, I'd seen that but it was too late for me to edit it. In my case, it was some typo/autocorrect combination.

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

1099-k threshold is 20k.

So again, what LAW are you all referring to? Just produce the law you keep talking about. I'm not claiming it doesn't exist I am asking you to back up this often repeated claim.

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Not in all states.

https://help.mybrightwheel.com/en/articles/4633018-form-1099-k-faq

State-Specific Requirements

There may be state requirements other than the Federal IRS that require the issuers of 1099K  to report to the state. Some customers may try to argue they are not required but state law may say otherwise:

There are currently 11 states (as of Oct 2020), that have 1099-K threshold reporting below the federal threshold: Arkansas, D.C., Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Vermont, Virginia and Maryland.

Arkansas - Arkansas requires the form to be reported at $2,500 and eliminates the transaction count minimum.

Florida - 1099-K returns will be due by the 30th day following the IRS due date and are required from payment settlement entities operating in Florida or with an address in Florida. Formerly a no-income tax state where there was no state 1099 reporting changed the law to require the 1099-K to be reported directly at the federal thresholds.

Illinois - Beginning with 2020 and after, we will be required to submit those reports to Illinois electronically when four or more separate transactions that exceed $1,000 are reported.

Massachusetts, Mississippi, Maryland, Vermont - Lowers the dollar amount to $600 or more in reportable payments.

Missouri - Lowers the dollar amount to $1,200 or more in reportable payments.

New Jersey - New Jersey requires the form to be reported $1,000 and eliminates the transaction count minimum.

Virginia - We must report payments made to participating payees with a Virginia address if those payments are greater than or equal to $600. This change is effective July 1, 2020, applicable to payment transactions made on or after January 1, 2020 with reporting due in April 2021.

[veronicabooksandart]

The law is the Patriot Act; specifically compliance as maintaining a Customer Identification Program (CIP). There must be a minimum dollar amount as Mercari doesn't ask for SSN until you reach around 5K in sales; so says the consensus.
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Google "Wiki KYC"

[espresso_warehouse]

Yes. I don't know if I trust ebay with access to a checking account of any kind let alone SSN or EIN. I haven't decided.

Amazon has a very similar setup to MP and I sell there. They have access to my bank account and an image of my DL. It's been a while but I'm assuming they got my SSN at some point too. So it's not the sheer idea of the thing that I don't like, it's the unpredictable nature of eBay specifically which I take issue with.

I fear ebay will eventually use the information they are harvesting as leverage against sellers as they become more brazen with their fees. Several decades ago, before there were more consumer protections in place, certain credit card companies who would use creative marketing eerily similar to ebay's MP marketing to get people to sign up for cards, then find ways to charge people ridiculous fees. Sure, on the one hand, you could blame it on the consumer, with statements like 'It's your choice to sign up for this card or not'. Or 'if you had bothered to read the user agreement, you'd see on page 19 the $79 bi-monthly fee associated with this card every leap year'. Whatever. By the same notion, you could say 'You gave you SSN to American Express, therefore you should also give it to TrustCo Bank Hometown'.

Speaking of trust, it is all about trust and accountability. I'm open to them earning my trust back, but I'm definitely enjoying Amazon a lot more.

[veronicabooksandart]

For my part, trusting eBay with financial information is moot as I can't trust them to correctly bill my account.
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I got a sales order that's been sitting out since Halloween, waiting now for Arbitration to redress a FedEx overcharge.

[espresso_warehouse]

The statement I am taking issue with is;

"eBay is required by the federal government to obtain an identification number for all who enroll in the Managed Payments program"

It appears it is eBay and Ayden policy, not federal law, which requires everyone to submit this information before they can list in MP. Federal law is pretty specific, has minimum thresholds and doesn't say anything about creating listings or Managed Payments, which is an eBay specific thing.

Federal law is specific to money transfers over a certain frequency and threshold. Same reason why you don't need to submit this information to Venmo and other money transfer businesses until you get close to the threshold.

[pburn]

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

Yes, I'd seen that but it was too late for me to edit it. In my case, it was some typo/autocorrect combination.

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Yeah. Same here. 😂

[mam98031]

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@hurryagain wrote:

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

Whether I think ebay is secure enough is a different topic for me. Right now I am curious to see if someone can produce an actual federal law which requires ebay take every single seller's EIN or SSN, even before they make a sale.

So far the stuff posted hasn't really fit. I guess Pburn is trying to say ebay and PayPal are 'banks, savings associations, credit unions, and certain non-Federally regulated banks.'

But he's contradicted himself several times about that. He says Paypal isn't one of those but eBay is.

Ebay is being smart from a compliance perspective but these claims about federal law requiring social security numbers to create a listing sounds a bit absurd to me.

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@mam98031 

Knowing you, you might be able to answer to above highlighted area.

🏆

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@hurryagain 

This is a really complicated issue and the US government doesn't make it easy to fine an easy to read and understand format for this question.  While it seems simple, it is actually complicated.  @pburn  has been posting some great information.  This may also assist some that still are uncertain.  This is also a link that pburn has shared.  It will show you that Money Processing services are covered under AML [anti money laundering] and the US Patriots act similar to how banks are covered under these laws.

https://www.protiviti.com/sites/default/files/guide-to-us-aml-requirements-6thedition-protiviti_sec_...

Now this next link shows you this.

https://www.csiweb.com/how-we-help/regulatory-compliance/identity-verification-kyc-compliance/

So the first link shows us that Money Processors like MP must comply to the requirements of CIP [customer identification program] as stated in the US Patriots act and in the Anti Money Laundering law.

Now this next link is for FDIC insurance which MP is NOT eligible for, but I'm giving this link because CIP is spelled out in more detail and it is more informative.

https://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/8000-1600.html#fdic8000fra1020.220

I've tried to find this information all in one place.  But it is quite challenging.  I'm confident it is out there somewhere, I just haven't located it.  So while this is a bit cumbersome what we learn from these links is that MP is subject to many of the restrictions and requirements of banks, not all, but many of them and CIP is one of them they are required to adhere to.

If anyone finds better info please share.