eBay

rc66gto · ‎11-01-2020

I have been a Ebay member buyer/seller since 1999 untill recently my account was frozen because I refuse to give up my SSN. No one should have to give up there SSN.the reason is that you will be reported to the IRS so that you will have to pay more taxes because its earn income.most of us who rely on making a few dollars are tax those of us who are retire and living on fix social security income depend on flea markets and garage sales for extra cash it's going to get to a point if you stop to use a restroom you will be tax it's out of control . I will close my account with Ebay and sell where I'm not under pressure to keep them happy the more you sale on Ebay the better they look there employees get pay and there stocks go up.

ers_usa · ‎01-30-2021

Are we now supposed to keep receipts of what we paid for these items like we are a business?

"YEP. As you should have been doing all along. Every single transaction on Ebay is a business transaction. There are NO personal transactions on Ebay and never have been. While you may not consider yourself a "business", that doesn't mean you aren't functioning as one."

The highlighted and underlined response is complete HORSE**bleep**. Ebay was meant to run as a place where you can sell your used or new but not needed stuff, OR sell the same, NOT AS A BUSINESS, but as a garage sale/flea market. Unfortunately it turned into what you're saying now. Because of people like YOU. YOU turned it into a BUSINESS. And now everyone is suffering the consequences. And you have the audacity to **bleep** on us who just want to sell a used toaster to a broader audience and not pay crazy fees? Shame on you.

no_zero369 · ‎01-30-2021

@ers_usa

I think posters here can continue expressing their opinions on these matters. Some opinions are correct and others are uninformed.

BUT if you want the "right answer" one should consult with a Tax Attorney or an Accountant that is an " enrolled agent " with the IRS. They will have the definitive answer as to what is required of sellers and when those requirements were enacted and the history and depth of enforcement actions by the IRS.

Best wishes to you and your selling.

ers_usa · ‎01-30-2021

I know and I agree with you... Everyone has the right to express their opinion.

It's just sad that this is what Ebay has turned into. Businesses selling on Ebay. Well, what about the little guy like me? Should we go somewhere else? If I have to consult with a tax attorney or an accountant about selling $1.5k a year worth of selling puzzles, board games and old computer parts, does it make sense? It's just so bizarre. That's not what Ebay was about before...

Thanks for your input

mam98031 · ‎01-30-2021

@ers_usa wrote:
Are we now supposed to keep receipts of what we paid for these items like we are a business?

"YEP. As you should have been doing all along. Every single transaction on Ebay is a business transaction. There are NO personal transactions on Ebay and never have been. While you may not consider yourself a "business", that doesn't mean you aren't functioning as one."

The highlighted and underlined response is complete HORSE**bleep**. Ebay was meant to run as a place where you can sell your used or new but not needed stuff, OR sell the same, NOT AS A BUSINESS, but as a garage sale/flea market. Unfortunately it turned into what you're saying now. Because of people like YOU. YOU turned it into a BUSINESS. And now everyone is suffering the consequences. And you have the audacity to **bleep** on us who just want to sell a used toaster to a broader audience and not pay crazy fees? Shame on you.

IRS would disagree.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

mam98031 · ‎01-30-2021

@ers_usa wrote:
I know and I agree with you... Everyone has the right to express their opinion.

It's just sad that this is what Ebay has turned into. Businesses selling on Ebay. Well, what about the little guy like me? Should we go somewhere else? If I have to consult with a tax attorney or an accountant about selling $1.5k a year worth of selling puzzles, board games and old computer parts, does it make sense? It's just so bizarre. That's not what Ebay was about before...

Thanks for your input

Going elsewhere doesn't absolve you of what IRS sees as income. And IRS would definitely see sales of 1500 a year as income that should be declared. Even the state you live it requires you to declare the income. I know it sounds crazy to some, but this isn't new. Maybe new to you, but IRS has required this for years.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/ebay-form-1099k?id=4794

Some states have minimum reporting thresholds lower than those outlined above. We'll provide managed payments sellers in the following states with Form 1099-K by January 31st each year if you have received payments above the following thresholds in the previous calendar year:

Arkansas - $2,500 in gross payments with no threshold on the number of transactions
District of Columbia - $600 in gross payments with no threshold on the number of transactions
Illinois - $1,000 in gross payments and a minimum of 4 transactions
Maryland - $600 in gross payments with no threshold on the number of transactions
Massachusetts - $600 in gross payments with no threshold on the number of transactions
Mississippi - $600 in gross payments with no threshold on the number of transactions
New Jersey - $1,000 in gross payments with no threshold on the number of transactions
Virginia - $600 in gross payments with no threshold on the number of transactions
Vermont - $600 in gross payments with no threshold on the number of transactions

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

ers_usa · ‎01-31-2021

You don't get the point, do you? Ebay was established as a reseller site that operated the same way you buy stuff on a craigslist/flea market/garage sale. No tax involved. You pay a fee to ebay to use it, that's it. People like you turned it into a business and of course eventually the government noticed it and now they're gonna tax the **bleep** out of it. Thank you very much.

And NO to your statement that this isn't new. IT IS new. I never had to pay taxes before. Only NOW for 2020 Illinois requires $1000 in gross payments and a minimum of 4 transactions. So NO, IRS has NOT required it for years. Thanks to people like you, NOW it does.

mam98031 · ‎01-31-2021

@ers_usa wrote:
You don't get the point, do you? Ebay was established as a reseller site that operated the same way you buy stuff on a craigslist/flea market/garage sale. No tax involved. You pay a fee to ebay to use it, that's it. People like you turned it into a business and of course eventually the government noticed it and now they're gonna tax the **bleep** out of it. Thank you very much.

And NO to your statement that this isn't new. IT IS new. I never had to pay taxes before. Only NOW for 2020 Illinois requires $1000 in gross payments and a minimum of 4 transactions. So NO, IRS has NOT required it for years. Thanks to people like you, NOW it does.

I don't think that my understanding is what is the issue here. Ebay has always had to adhere to Federal Laws and state laws. And sellers were ALWAYS suppose to report their income earned here. Because so many sellers weren't is what caused the 1099K to be created by IRS in 2011.

Now in 2021 not only do sites have to adhere to the Rules and Regs of IRS, they have the 2020 updated Anti Money Laundering laws and the newer state laws requiring 1099Ks for certain money thresholds. As well they must adhere to the state laws regarding sales tax. They are actual Laws in about 42 states.

Things change. That is always a guarantee in life. And certainly is true on the internet sites as well.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

no_zero369 · ‎01-31-2021

@ers_usa

There is no where else you can go as a seller and not see tax issues! Bear with me, I feel a wave of 'pedantic' coming over me!😁 Sigh

How we got to "sales tax" on our eBay sales came as a result of the hunger state governments have for funds and sales taxes are one of the ways they get funds. With the growth of online sales, sales tax receipts from B&M stores were declining. States 'woke up" and realized they were "losing" tax dollars for items bought online. So there was a law suit which made it all the way up to the Supreme Court. The SC ruled that indeed states had the right to collect sales tax on online purchases.

Now it could have been worse - YOU as a seller could have been required to collect those sales taxes and send them to the states where the buyer was located. 👎 Talk about a headache on top of a headache on top of having COVID-19!😵 But the way the law was written was that the "facilitator" (eBay, Etsy, Amazon, etc) was the one responsible for collecting and remitting the sales taxes. This is why eBay now charges the FVF on the item/shipping AND the sales taxes. The little bit of extra (10% on 10% or whatever) helps eBay have funds to collect and remit the sales taxes to the states. So at least the "collecting and remitting" sales taxes isn't an issue for you! 👍

Now as far as your frustration about "causal selling" and business selling goes, I get it! Many don't want to be a business seller with all of the headaches etc. But I can spend all day, every day, 12-hours a day giving advice on these threads because many small sellers don't "get it!" Even if you sell $200 worth of stuff on eBay, or where ever, you are engaged in a business and as such should to do certain things. I know it comes as a shock, shoot most get bent out of shape when they have a return. But the issue is that IF seller had treated their selling like a business, they would have had plans in place to handle returns, income taxes, etc. So like it or not, selling on eBay, etsy or at a flea market is "business activity." As such it has risks and rewards.

Doing the "business things" isn't hard. It does take a bit of "learning" however and if you are stubborn like me, it will take a while to get the concepts internalized through the wall of resistance. I mean I fought with sellers here on these threads, as you are doing, so I get where you are coming from! Doing this isn't all that hard, it is just new and different. I mean if you saw the plumber that showed up at my house the other day....IF that dude can do the business stuff, I am sure you can! But it took me a long while to accept that I was "in business" and make changes and plans to manage that appropriately.

But hey, I know many will bring up the "Flea Market" example of selling stuff privately and not having an income tax burden. Yeah, there has always been ways that people find to evade income taxes, but just because they do it and get away with it doesn't mean that it is sanctioned or correct in the IRS's view. Selling 1,500 on eBay each year and not reporting it? Yeah, you "could" do that and probably never be detected by the IRS, but if you do get caught, the time, energy, STRESS and cost is going to far outweigh the 'cost' of doing the right thing. So each person has to evaluate the risks of any action against the consequences. Isn't that what we tell our kids in the difference between being a kid and an adult?

But think about it, what is the cost of an additional $1,500 on your income tax return? You can look this up in extra tax in the tax tables tables. Generally if you make up to 54K/yr it is going to cost you 12% (0.12 x 1,500=180) so not a trivial amount, but not a huge hit either. And generally, if you make up to $86K per year that additional $1,500 is gunna cost your 22% or $330. If you make over 86K a year and are complaining about taxes, then you are a @#^&(^&%R!😳 Many would love ❤️ to be in your shoes! No one wants to pay taxes, but the key is to pay only what you owe! Listen up, as that statement seems trivial but it really isn't - the devil is in the details!

So IF that $1,500 is your gross sales then you need to subtract your costs in order to come up with the actual amount that is income taxable - i.e. added to your other income on your income tax return! On $1,500 of sales, you can probably "deduct" 13%+ for eBay fees, then you deduct the cost of shipping, which can run ~ 30%. Then of course if you bought shipping supplies you deduct that too. If what you sold was something you bought at a flea market, Goodwill, close out sale or another way of 'sourcing' then you deduct those casts, the 'cost of goods sold!'

The 'bottom line' is that the $1,500 of sales usually only generates a "profit" of 30%-40% so the actual "taxable amount" of those $1,500 of sales is an additional $450- $500 of income on your taxes, which results in an additional $60 (at 12% level) or $110 (at 22% level) of taxes! Shoot that would reduce most peoples refund by an amount they would never notice.

You take the "deductions" for your costs of selling (eBay fees, shipping, packaging, etc) on a Schedule C

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sc.pdf

Yeah, it looks complicated but it is pretty straight forward! Sales receipts (total sales) on Line 1, subtract the cost of the items you sold on Line 4 and then fill-in your expenses in the next section and eventually subtract them to come up with the total expenses on Line 28 and eventually your profit or loss! NOTE: if you generate a loss, you might be able to add a negative number to your tax return which would REDUCE the overall taxes you owe! Now that's a good thing!

So I get your shock and frustration and why you are pounding back at the posters here. Believe me I was like you at one point - probably even WORSE! But what you can't comprehend, as I sure didn't in the beginning, is that the posters here like @mam98031 are doing you a good service! It sure took a bunch to beat me into "waking up" or getting the stubborn beaten out of me! After that happens you will realize the information you can get here is valuable and then no, you won't need to spend money with an Attorney or Accountant. But hey, if you do not believe what is written here, then by all means drop a few buck and ask the professionals.

So yeah, opinions are great, but often long held opinions need to be examined and challenged and if the basis for those opinions has changed or things in the world change, it is time to adjust ones thinking. Doesn't mean anyone was wrong, just that things changed or there is something they weren't aware of. I have often been called 'ignorant' (i.e. uneducated) and I never object to that classification. You see, I understand that ignorance can be "cured," it isn't permanent nor a fatal condition! Education is in fact the cure for ignorance!

So hope this in someway helps! Keep pushing back on the boards until the light-bulb comes on! I know it did for me and I know it will for you! 👍

2_ndhandjoes · ‎01-31-2021

Halleluiah! I had that argument with Ebay on Friday. They told me that I could have an extension on this policy until i CHANGE MY MIND!!! I said in no uncertain terms will I CHANGE MY MIND! And, btw, I never gave PayPal my SS# either. Ebay also said i would have the number of my free listings reduced until i change my mind. This is after I recently had a security breach on my account, no less!!! They assured me that my account would be safe.....yeah, how???? When I asked to speak with a supervisor I was told that there was a high call volume, and someone would call me back, it's Sunday, that was Friday...I'm still waiting.

mam98031 · ‎01-31-2021

@2_ndhandjoes wrote:
Halleluiah! I had that argument with Ebay on Friday. They told me that I could have an extension on this policy until i CHANGE MY MIND!!! I said in no uncertain terms will I CHANGE MY MIND! And, btw, I never gave PayPal my SS# either. Ebay also said i would have the number of my free listings reduced until i change my mind. This is after I recently had a security breach on my account, no less!!! They assured me that my account would be safe.....yeah, how???? When I asked to speak with a supervisor I was told that there was a high call volume, and someone would call me back, it's Sunday, that was Friday...I'm still waiting.

When an individual account is hacked, that isn't a fault of the site. It means that somehow the hacker was able to get ahold of your password. Whether that was from trial and error or from you use of the password on an unsecured device they were able to access.

Just like back in April my PP account was hacked. That was not a fault of PP's security but of some persistent hackers that found a way to grab my password so they could access my account. I had thought I was being safe, but clearly I was mistaken.

Not sure why or if Ebay gave you this extension. But if it works for you that is great.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

rmbeavers · ‎01-31-2021

Why don't you just disclose that you work for eBay? Hired by eBay to try to make a negative thing seem positive

Do you work for eBay? yes or no

mam98031 · ‎01-31-2021

@rmbeavers wrote:
Why don't you just disclose that you work for eBay? Hired by eBay to try to make a negative thing seem positive

Do you work for eBay? yes or no

@rmbeavers

LOL Because someone shares how something works on Ebay doesn't mean they are "employed" by Ebay. It simply means they took the time to learn about a certain subject and can therefore explain it without consideration that it may conflict with how you see things. Nothing more. Your accusations are nothing new or clever.

But often when someone shares information that doesn't match the other poster's point of view, their response is to attack and try to sling mud in an effort to dismiss what I said.

Because I can explain a process on Ebay doesn't also mean I agree with it or in any way like it. What it means is I can explain it. Nothing more.

When Ebay told me I was moving into MP I went out and learned as much as I could about the program as IMHO it is the single most important change Ebay has ever made to the site. So I learned. Once I felt I understood the facts I then made my decision it I was going to stay or go. My decision was to stay as my business does well enough on Ebay to warrant that decision. As in any job, I don't like every aspect of my job. Nothing new in that. But what I don't like about MP will likely improve in time and it would not be a good business decision for me to shut down my Ebay selling because of some of the things I don't like about MP.

Especially in light of that the other similar sites have their own MP programs that aren't that much different than MP. So I'm not going to damage myself financially, that would simply make no sense. AT least not to me. For others there decisions may be different. But any decision made is much better coming from an informed position rather than from assumptions, anger and emotions.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

no_zero369 · ‎01-31-2021

Well stated! Degenerating a conversation to attacks and personalization is tiresome and banal.

Don't need to say it but keep up the good work! Others notice.

Each person has to make decisions on how to manage & run their own business and if a SSN is too much then that is everyone's right. The point on these threads is that if one listens they will get a different perspective to use to make decisions, not just make them living in an echo chamber.

mam98031 · ‎01-31-2021

@no_zero369 wrote:
Well stated! Degenerating a conversation to attacks and personalization is tiresome and banal.

Don't need to say it but keep up the good work! Others notice.

Each person has to make decisions on how to manage & run their own business and if a SSN is too much then that is everyone's right. The point on these threads is that if one listens they will get a different perspective to use to make decisions, not just make them living in an echo chamber.

Thank you as I know we had a bumpy start. I am however glad I was able to assist.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

dreamaholic · ‎01-31-2021

That is simply not true. While it is true that no financial information was breached, the database that was compromised held eBay customer's names, encrypted passwords, email addresses, physical addresses, phone numbers, and dates of birth. Now you may not think that's a big deal, but I do. Many of us remember this and had to change our passwords, and we wondered if the increased spam and direct mail we were receiving was a result of that information being sold in places like Russia and other black market hot spots. And if your SSN is stored in the personal information database rather than the financial database, it is at tremendous risk to be compromised. Since no security info is being provided, we have no way of knowing. And eBay has not released anything saying they will take responsibility for compromised SSNs (such as free LifeLock protection).

The breach happened thanks to the credentials of 3 eBay employees being compromised. Sorry, but I'm not putting the security of my SSN in the hands of eBay employees who might be careless or having a bad day. It's bad enough that all of my other information is at risk.

Needing a SSN is only required because eBay is moving to the MP only model for sellers. They wouldn't need my SSN and my photo ID if I opted out, but that's not an option given. So I'll continue as a buyer as long as Paypal is accepted, but I'll be selling elsewhere. Paypal does not have my SSN because I have not applied for Paypal credit and I have never recorded 200 transactions AND sell $20,000 or more in services or products. I'm a small fish, I sell very little. eBay won't miss my sales.

Here's a couple of links just in case you were confused about the breach. These are reports given to the media by eBay. Take your own advice and Google it, you'll find lots more of the same:

https://www.cnet.com/news/ebay-hacked-requests-all-users-change-passwords/#:~:text=eBay's%20morning%....

https://www.businessinsider.com/cyber-thieves-took-data-on-145-million-ebay-customers-by-hacking-3-c...