So now we are responsible if the package is

[mg152]

Stolen from the buyers porch, mailbox, car trunk etc.....

I will certainly be leaving as a seller as soon as I sell all my junk and get my money 

[threshold.sales.group]

Fwiw, the thing about an INR dispute is that it isn't a "he said / she said". In an INR dispute there is an objective third party - the delivery service and online viewable objective evidence.  If that goes away as a firm policy and promise to sellers (or is made contingent on a case by case basis) that guts any sort of small seller protection that was left. 

[hillbillymedia]

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@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

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@hillbillymedia wrote:

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@castlemagicmemories wrote:

Nothing has really changed other than the scam some sellers were using to circumvent an INR claim will no longer work.

************************************************************************************************************

And that was my other thought.  To put an end to those who send something somewhere in the buyer's zip code, but buyer does not receive.

---

I guess I am dumb. Please explain to me how (if nothing has really changed) that ebay is going to prevent sellers from doing this supposed scam. The dates on the tracking prove when the item was initally scanned and when the item was delivered. Also, ebay can see when the label is printed. Not all sellers use Ebay labels. I don't, so there's no way for Ebay to see when I print my labels.

---

Buyer buys an item.  No tracking number is uploaded. Estimated delivery date passes. Buyers contacts seller, asking if item has shipped. Seller uploads a tracking number after the buyer asks. It will either show delivery, or show some movement toward the buyer. Problem is, it's the "same zip" scam.  Sellers do this as an outright scam, or to avoid OOS defects, since it's not fatal to have an INR.  Sellers avoiding OOS will just refund the buyer, since an INR carries much less weight than an OOS strike will.  Scam sellers are just scamming.  I see this popping up more and more on the buyer board.

As long as the tracking number is entered right away when you ship, things should be as normal.  If a seller uses tracking, I really don't see a reason to withold it, and I don't see anything changing for those that do upload their tracking in a timely manner.

JMHO FWIW

This is my take on the whole matter.

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This just proves I wouldn`t be a good criminal LOL.

[myjunqueyourtreasure]

Anyone else notice the Shipping metrics just vanished from the Update board?

[sharingtheland]

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@myjunqueyourtreasure wrote:
Anyone else notice the Shipping metrics just vanished from the Update board?

---

Whoa.   Could it be?  We yelled; they listened?   That Shipping Metrics policy about getting the item into the buyer's hands has been changed to:

If I have tracking that proves an item was delivered even though there's an "item not received" clai...

No. We have not changed how an "item not received" claim will be handled with valid tracking uploaded that proves delivery.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

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@coffeebean832 wrote:

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@muttlymob wrote:

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@themayqueen wrote:

There's one glimmer of hope. At least now usps has the online photos and tracking, etc of all the mail you receive. It might be useful for some, to refer to that record.

---

Informed Delivery only captures images of letter mail that passes through USPS automated processing machinery.

Not packages.  Not flats.  Not nonmachinable letters.

That may be coming in the future but not available now.

---

USPS has that data on their internal system. I guess it could be useful if you need USPS to print out that info and they cooperate, but I don't see the point @themayqueen was trying to make.

I receive a daily e-mail with photos of letter mail coming my way. So what if that also included packages in the future - how is that helpful to the seller? A seller would not have access to images of mail coming to my address.

---

why is informed delivery being added to this??? It has nothing to do with it.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

Why is everyone still trying to add things to this that are just not there. It is almost the exact same policy as before except now you add the tracking within the handling time....and we had to do this anyway so we would not get dinged for late shipment. We have all been doing pretty much been doing all this for quite some time now already.

Nothing else has really changed at all. Nothing was added. Sellers do not really have to do anything any different and you are covered if you upload the tracking on time and it show delivery to the buyer.

It makes no sense to make up things just to add in that the policy just does not say at all and that ebay does not say at all to make this into an issue that it is not....and it is not going to change what the policy does say or what is required.

[imakesugar]

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@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures wrote:

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@mg152 wrote:

Stolen from the buyers porch, mailbox, car trunk etc.....

I will certainly be leaving as a seller as soon as I sell all my junk and get my money 

---

You will only be repsonible if the tracking has not been uploaded on time, and tracking shows it was not shipped/delivered to the correct address.
If an item was lost int he mail you will still need to have insurance to cover yourself for that
Nothing has really changed other than the scam some sellers were using to circumvent an INR claim will no longer work.
And this has already been clarified by an ebay blue in another thread too.

---

That was My first thought. They are trying to catch the Sellers who are Not getting packages out on time and making it so that they could get more of an idea on who is shipping on time. Doing that could be a bonus for Great Sellers who try and get their packages out on time.  eBay could cut people out of the "new guaranteed shipping program." that can't meet standards. They might just make it a standard that You have to be invited based on Your previous record.

Then I think that IT will also be a bonus to protect Sellers from Buyers that are gaming the system. I wonder how many Buyers are were saying that they didn't get their item on time, and eBay was paying this out fo their pockets? We know some Buyers were filing INR's on Sellers and getting their money back before they even got the item.  Hopefully, eBay is trying to plug holes to make it better for Sellers.

I answer Questions on a question-answer board. I am continually getting ask questions hinting on how to scam eBay. Questions I get are like "How do I create a false shipping number?" "Is it Ok if I share a game with My friends and return it?"

Many times I talk about how eBay is getting stricter and what the penalties are from the US government, and that they are filing charges on many scammers.  I talk about how it hurts Sellers on a fixed income and how behavior like that is not a sport.

Seems like some kids are renting games from eBay Sellers. I know from experience some good games like My Son could reach ALL the levels in about a month.  He'd sell them back to Game Stop where he bought them.  I personally think games, videos, VCR tapes, etc. should have a 5  business day to get them approved. I do not Sell games, but If I did Sell games, then I would seriously offer free shipping back for any reason with ONLY A 5-day return window.  😉

[imakesugar]

@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures wrote:

@mg152 wrote:

Stolen from the buyers porch, mailbox, car trunk etc.....

I will certainly be leaving as a seller as soon as I sell all my junk and get my money 

You will only be repsonible if the tracking has not been uploaded on time, and tracking shows it was not shipped/delivered to the correct address.
If an item was lost int he mail you will still need to have insurance to cover yourself for that
Nothing has really changed other than the scam some sellers were using to circumvent an INR claim will no longer work.
And this has already been clarified by an ebay blue in another thread too.

That was My first thought. They are trying to catch the Sellers who are Not getting packages out on time and making it so that they could get more of an idea on who is shipping on time. Doing that could be a bonus for Great Sellers who try and get their packages out on time.  eBay could cut people out of the "new guaranteed shipping program." that can't meet standards. They might just make it a standard that You have to be invited based on Your previous record.

Then I think that IT will also be a bonus to protect Sellers from Buyers that are gaming the system. I wonder how many Buyers are were saying that they didn't get their item on time, and eBay was paying this out fo their pockets? We know some Buyers were filing INR's on Sellers and getting their money back before they even got the item.  Hopefully, eBay is trying to plug holes to make it better for Sellers.

I answer Questions on a question-answer board. I am continually getting ask questions hinting on how to scam eBay. Questions I get are like "How do I create a false shipping number?" "Is it Ok if I share a game with My friends and return it?"

Many times I talk about how eBay is getting stricter and what the penalties are from the US government, and that they are filing charges on many scammers.  I talk about how it hurts Sellers on a fixed income and how behavior like that is not a sport.

Seems like some kids are renting games from eBay Sellers. I know from experience some good games like My Son could reach ALL the levels in about a month.  He'd sell them back to Game Stop where he bought them.  I personally think games, videos, VCR tapes, etc. should have a 5  business day to get them approved. I do not Sell games, but If I did Sell games, then I would seriously offer free shipping back for any reason with ONLY A 5-day return window.  😉

---

@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures wrote:

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@findersltd wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@gew6463 wrote:

Wow!!! Thanks for the Link. That is just crazy!

ONE Requirement (if seller wants to not be held responsible for a 'delivered' item) is to have Buyer's ADDRESS on the tracking..USPS does NOT have this. 

Things are going to go downhill from here I think 😞 

---

FedEx and UPS don’t show the address either. So......what carrier does eBay want you to use?

---

On the thread I was on RE:Fall Seller Update this was a hot topic. The blue there said as long as tracking was uploaded and shown delivered we would be covered. I copied him the response the blue said about needing the recipients address to show and he stated it was a "miscommunication"

---

The tracking has to be for the correct address which is what most sellers to anyway. It is all there automatically and recorded by the carrier under the tracking number in their systems.
The scam was sellers would upload tracking for the same zip but different address....this is the only thing that is really impacted.
Everything else is what sellers are supposed to do anyway as you have to upload tracking within the handling time  so you do not get dinged for a late shipment....and we still have the same coverage if that is done.

Some people keep adding things into this that are not there

---

This new policy also would protect Buyers from this also. 🙂

[ed8108]

---

@paulhua3 wrote:

That is not true.  Over the last year or so I have had about 5 buyers claim they did not get their item when tracking showed delivered and I was not forced to refund any of them.  I believe in one case eBay refunded a buyer out of their pocket.

---

Does EBay now advise sellers to plan for the occasional lost or stolen buyer package ?

Why & how should you plan ?

Is it possible that sellers unable to meet some standard, may be required to contribute financialy in a ebay courtesy refund program ?

Simply another seller cost of doing business .  

[ed8108]

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@hillbillymedia wrote:

---

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

Nothing has really changed other than the scam some sellers were using to circumvent an INR claim will no longer work.

************************************************************************************************************

And that was my other thought.  To put an end to those who send something somewhere in the buyer's zip code, but buyer does not receive.

---

I guess I am dumb. Please explain to me how (if nothing has really changed) that ebay is going to prevent sellers from doing this supposed scam. The dates on the tracking prove when the item was initally scanned and when the item was delivered. Also, ebay can see when the label is printed.

---

Received a tracked USPS package delivery .

Seller did not use ebay to print the shipping label. Seller paid USPS retail

& my name & address was hanwritten.

How would this seller prove this package was sent to the correct address ?

With respect to GPS, unfortunately some carriers scan packages as delivered at some distance away from the actual location of delivery.

[budgetbaseballcards]

---

@gramophone-georg wrote:

This is just notice to sellers being given by eBay that eBay is done coddling buyers who claim they did not get packages showing as "delivered" on their dime.

Now they'll coddle these buyers on YOUR dime.

Simple.

---

Ebay is in cost cutting mode to try and stave off the continuing drop in their stock price.  They have laid off employees, moved Ebay Open to a hotel that is giving away rooms and banquet facilities since the shootings last year, cut Ebay Open to 3 days instead of 4 while raising the cost and now they are looking to shift the cost of coddling the buyers from their pocketbook to ours.  They are even looking for Sellers with Expertise in various categories to help them fix their catalog for FREE because they do not have the personnel with the qualifications and do not want to pay for it.  So Sellers are supposed to volunteer their time to help Ebay fix their broken platform and their reward is to feel good about helping Ebay pocket more money from the Sellers??

One Blue did finally state that the zip code was adequate protection for the seller on this thread, post #74, so everybody might want to bookmark it for when it is no longer easily accessible.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Marketplace-Updates/Fall-Seller-Release/m-p/28830805#M135

The blue admitted that all Ebay verifies to is the zip code the same as USPS and that is all the Seller would need to show.  For those that are unable to get to that page for some reason down the road, here is the response from the Ebay Blue:

Hi twnpopcards,

You're right, of course.  USPS does not disclose a full delivery address publicly and for good reasons.  We also don't validate to the exact street address for the same reason - sorry, I wasn't clear about that.  We do look for a matching zip code.

International shipments can be a bit more challenging as standards of data quality differ across countries and shipping carriers delivering to those countries.  We do our best to manage policies according to what the standards are in those countries, but for US shipments, the main thing is making sure that the item was delivered within the same zip code as the buyer indicated in Checkout.

Thanks,

Dallas

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

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@ed8108 wrote:

---

@paulhua3 wrote:

That is not true.  Over the last year or so I have had about 5 buyers claim they did not get their item when tracking showed delivered and I was not forced to refund any of them.  I believe in one case eBay refunded a buyer out of their pocket.

---

Does EBay now advise sellers to plan for the occasional lost or stolen buyer package ?

Why & how should you plan ?

Is it possible that sellers unable to meet some standard, may be required to contribute financialy in a ebay courtesy refund program ?

Simply another seller cost of doing business .  

---

That is why sellers purchase insurance. It covers items lost and damaged in the mail. This is something sellers have been doing for years and not anything new. And sellers are not responsible for stolen package IF they upload tracking on time and it shows to the buyer then we are covered by the seller protection policy. And there is really no reason a seller cannot upload tracking during the handling time....if you cannot meet your hadling time then you need to set a longer handling time anyway.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

---

@budgetbaseballcards wrote:

---

@gramophone-georg wrote:

This is just notice to sellers being given by eBay that eBay is done coddling buyers who claim they did not get packages showing as "delivered" on their dime.

Now they'll coddle these buyers on YOUR dime.

Simple.

---

Ebay is in cost cutting mode to try and stave off the continuing drop in their stock price.  They have laid off employees, moved Ebay Open to a hotel that is giving away rooms and banquet facilities since the shootings last year, cut Ebay Open to 3 days instead of 4 while raising the cost and now they are looking to shift the cost of coddling the buyers from their pocketbook to ours.  They are even looking for Sellers with Expertise in various categories to help them fix their catalog for FREE because they do not have the personnel with the qualifications and do not want to pay for it.  So Sellers are supposed to volunteer their time to help Ebay fix their broken platform and their reward is to feel good about helping Ebay pocket more money from the Sellers??

One Blue did finally state that the zip code was adequate protection for the seller on this thread, post #74, so everybody might want to bookmark it for when it is no longer easily accessible.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Marketplace-Updates/Fall-Seller-Release/m-p/28830805#M135

The blue admitted that all Ebay verifies to is the zip code the same as USPS and that is all the Seller would need to show.  For those that are unable to get to that page for some reason down the road, here is the response from the Ebay Blue:

Hi twnpopcards,

You're right, of course.  USPS does not disclose a full delivery address publicly and for good reasons.  We also don't validate to the exact street address for the same reason - sorry, I wasn't clear about that.  We do look for a matching zip code.

International shipments can be a bit more challenging as standards of data quality differ across countries and shipping carriers delivering to those countries.  We do our best to manage policies according to what the standards are in those countries, but for US shipments, the main thing is making sure that the item was delivered within the same zip code as the buyer indicated in Checkout.

Thanks,

Dallas

---

The policy never said it needed to show or that sellers need to show anything such thing on the shipping label.......that was one of those things someone added in and others ran with.
The policy says pretty much the same thing it always has and sellers have to do pretty much the same thing they have always done. Just have to upload the tracking earlier and that is all.
And it has been clarified by a blue or 2 prior to this as well and some just ignored all that and keep/kept on saying it.

[sharingtheland]

The policy never said it needed to show or that sellers need to show anything such thing on the shipping label.......that was one of those things someone added in and others ran with.
The policy says pretty much the same thing it always has and sellers have to do pretty much the same thing they have always done. Just have to upload the tracking earlier and that is all.
And it has been clarified by a blue or 2 prior to this as well and some just ignored all that and keep/kept on saying it.

There were policy changes that were particularly onerous for the seller.  In two days, someone at ebay went "oh oops" , based on all of the discussion and questions, and changed the policy verbiage in Seller Metrics in the Fall Update.  See post # 79.

Sellers were rightly concerned.  That issue seems to have been cleaned up and cleared up by ebay.

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

---

@sharingtheland wrote:

The policy never said it needed to show or that sellers need to show anything such thing on the shipping label.......that was one of those things someone added in and others ran with.
The policy says pretty much the same thing it always has and sellers have to do pretty much the same thing they have always done. Just have to upload the tracking earlier and that is all.
And it has been clarified by a blue or 2 prior to this as well and some just ignored all that and keep/kept on saying it.

There were policy changes that were particularly onerous for the seller.  In two days, someone at ebay went "oh oops" , based on all of the discussion and questions, and changed the policy verbiage in Seller Metrics in the Fall Update.  See post # 79.

Sellers were rightly concerned.  That issue seems to have been cleaned up and cleared up by ebay.

---

This was not one of them and was very clear from the beginning....and did not ever say one thing about requiring signature confirmation or sellers putting anything on labels or anything else that was added in that wasn't put there by ebay.....it said pretty much the same thing it always has and required sellers to do pretty much what they were already doing and had been clarified by blues a couple times early on and that too was still ignored.
It was not confusing to change/say that the tracking had to be uploaded earlier. That too was pretty clear.