Settle an argument for me

[jonathankirkland]

I bought a Microsoft Surface Book. The pictures of it show that is in good condition, and shows the unit POWERED on.

However, once I receive the unit, not only is the battery completely dead, but I come to realize that no ac adpater is included with it.

I contacted the seller and they said "the listings states no accessories". I did go back and see there was one small line in the mid section of the listing that says "Accessornies: none". 

I guess it is my fault for assuming that the charger would come with it, but is that really an "acessory"? I don't think it's an acessory at all, in fact, I would say it is a NECESSITY since you cannot use the thing after the battery dies...

To me it would be like a used car dealership selling you a car with an empty gas tank and telling you gasoline is an "accessory" and absolutely none is included...

[jonathankirkland]

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@rolenboy01 wrote:

I guess I am in the camp of assume nothing if it's not in the pictures don't assume it's included, I've shown items powered on before without selling it with the power cord because sometimes I can make more money selling them individually but I always mention that the cord or charger or whatever is not included.

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Yes you are right. And it goes to show that even the most veteran of buyers here can unintentionally swindle themselves.

[retrose1]

Something you did not mention in your OP.....Did you buy it NEW?

If you bought it new, then you should expect to get whatever comes in the sealed box with the new item - just as you would expect to get it at a B&M store.

If you bought it used or 'refurbished', then you should not expect to get anything extra except what the seller showed in the pic.

ebay has made it easy for sellers to list in bulk in little time with little to no work by the seller.  AND since ebay is working to get a catalog up and running so that all a seller has to do is click on the catalog and their listing is made - look for a lot more of this to continue to be happening in the future.....unless ebay totally seperates into a new mall site and a used and refurbished site and buyers can choose the warranties of new OR the savings but inconvenience of used, insead of playing Russian roulette with their options.

[gracieallen01]

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@retrose1 wrote:

Something you did not mention in your OP.....Did you buy it NEW?

If you bought it new, then you should expect to get whatever comes in the sealed box with the new item - just as you would expect to get it at a B&M store.

If you bought it used or 'refurbished', then you should not expect to get anything extra except what the seller showed in the pic.

ebay has made it easy for sellers to list in bulk in little time with little to no work by the seller.  AND since ebay is working to get a catalog up and running so that all a seller has to do is click on the catalog and their listing is made - look for a lot more of this to continue to be happening in the future.....unless ebay totally seperates into a new mall site and a used and refurbished site and buyers can choose the warranties of new OR the savings but inconvenience of used, insead of playing Russian roulette with their options.

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Have to agree with retrose - if you bought it as 'NEW', you should expect the cord - but even stores, sometimes, sell them separately.  However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't READ the description, and CHECK with the seller, anyway.  After all is said and done, this is 'online', AND this is 'EBAY'. 

Even if it was (or wasn't) labeled 'NEW', it may have been a good-looking yard sale find that the seller picked up, for very  little, to flip and knew that it wasn't there, but can afford the shipping of a return.

[jonathankirkland]

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@retrose1 wrote:

Something you did not mention in your OP.....Did you buy it NEW?

If you bought it new, then you should expect to get whatever comes in the sealed box with the new item - just as you would expect to get it at a B&M store.

If you bought it used or 'refurbished', then you should not expect to get anything extra except what the seller showed in the pic.

ebay has made it easy for sellers to list in bulk in little time with little to no work by the seller.  AND since ebay is working to get a catalog up and running so that all a seller has to do is click on the catalog and their listing is made - look for a lot more of this to continue to be happening in the future.....unless ebay totally seperates into a new mall site and a used and refurbished site and buyers can choose the warranties of new OR the savings but inconvenience of used, insead of playing Russian roulette with their options.

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@retrose1

Actually now that you mention it, it's listed as "manufacturer refurbished", does this mean that it was refurbished by Microsoft directly? How can a 3rd party seller make such a claim?? Hmm... that's very interesting.

It's funny but this is the 3rd transaction I've had to go through now to get this widget (or one similar), and each time there has been some kind of issue, with 3 different sellers (one small time scammer and two "big" businesses).

I don't recall having so many issues ever before buying on ebay, but perhaps sellers in general are getting lazier now? Or more sneaky? I'm not sure what it is... have all the "free" returns caused things to get WORSE somehow? You'd think they would want to provide BETTER customer service to cut down on returns, not do anything that would "increase" returns...

[jonathankirkland]

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@gracieallen01 wrote:

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@retrose1 wrote:

Something you did not mention in your OP.....Did you buy it NEW?

If you bought it new, then you should expect to get whatever comes in the sealed box with the new item - just as you would expect to get it at a B&M store.

If you bought it used or 'refurbished', then you should not expect to get anything extra except what the seller showed in the pic.

ebay has made it easy for sellers to list in bulk in little time with little to no work by the seller.  AND since ebay is working to get a catalog up and running so that all a seller has to do is click on the catalog and their listing is made - look for a lot more of this to continue to be happening in the future.....unless ebay totally seperates into a new mall site and a used and refurbished site and buyers can choose the warranties of new OR the savings but inconvenience of used, insead of playing Russian roulette with their options.

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Have to agree with retrose - if you bought it as 'NEW', you should expect the cord - but even stores, sometimes, sell them separately.  However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't READ the description, and CHECK with the seller, anyway.  After all is said and done, this is 'online', AND this is 'EBAY'. 

Even if it was (or wasn't) labeled 'NEW', it may have been a good-looking yard sale find that the seller picked up, for very  little, to flip and knew that it wasn't there, but can afford the shipping of a return.

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This reminds me of another issue I've been running into a lot lately, some of these BIG sellers (with hundreds of thousands of feedback) somehow and for some reason have private messages completely DISABLED so you cannot message them, that is until AFTER you buy something from them.

Personally I don't think someone selling items should be allowed to block messages, nor do I think it's good for business...

I guess in that case though if you are not able to verify what is in an auction for certain then it is best to avoid that seller.

But as I have mentioned also, I've been wanting this item for a long time and have had trouble getting it so I am perhaps getting a little bit desperate at this point... but again, that's my problem not anybody elses.

[gracieallen01]

If they don't have the time, manpower or inclination to answer questions, then see if you can find it someplace else.  They are just following the ebay lead/business model - 'Don't like the way I handle things, just take it or move on'.

[jonathankirkland]

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@gracieallen01 wrote:

If they don't have the time, manpower or inclination to answer questions, then see if you can find it someplace else.  They are just following the ebay lead/business model - 'Don't like the way I handle things, just take it or move on'.

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Well recently I bought from a 0-feedback seller and he tried to scam me. So I thought well maybe I'll have better luck buying from an established seller.

Seems no matter which way you go you're bought to get screwed up sooner or later. And while the free returns are "nice" it doesn't really help honest people get what they want now does it?

Also the item in question is a Microsoft Surface Book, so I guess you could consider it somewhat higher end and a bit hard to find? There aren't a million of them floating around like there would be for a specific model of a popular cell phone for example.

[lacemaker3]

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@jonathankirkland wrote:

I bought a Microsoft Surface Book. The pictures of it show that is in good condition, and shows the unit POWERED on.

However, once I receive the unit, not only is the battery completely dead, but I come to realize that no ac adpater is included with it.

I contacted the seller and they said "the listings states no accessories". I did go back and see there was one small line in the mid section of the listing that says "Accessornies: none". 

I guess it is my fault for assuming that the charger would come with it, but is that really an "acessory"? I don't think it's an acessory at all, in fact, I would say it is a NECESSITY since you cannot use the thing after the battery dies...

To me it would be like a used car dealership selling you a car with an empty gas tank and telling you gasoline is an "accessory" and absolutely none is included...

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Yes, you are correct, and this is backed up by eBay policy.

I scanned the thread and didn't see that anyone had provided the actual policy for this yet. Sorry if I missed it, there's a lot of discussion here already.

If an item is missing something that is essential to it's function (like a power cord) then it should only be listed as "For parts or repair". For all the other conditions, the item has to be fully functional as it is received. If it is missing an essential component, then it is not fully functional, according to eBay's condition definition.

Here are the condition definitions that apply for a "Microsoft Surface Book". I searched for a listing for one, and got the screenshot from there. (You might get a slightly different list if you went to this page from a different listing, or different category of item.)

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/contextual/condition_1.html

[pburn]

@jonathankirkland

The good news is (if there is any . . . ) that power cords are pretty inexpensive. I ruin mine all the time and have to replace it about every six months (I don't want to talk about it. LOL!) and I get them for about $12 or $15. I know it's a hassle--and you shouldn't have to do it, but it's not the end of the world. 

You're real challenge is going to be discovering whether the battery can hold a charge if you do end up buying a power cord. Maybe best to return it under the policy @lacemaker3 cited above.

Good luck with this one. 

[jonathankirkland]

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@pburn wrote:

@jonathankirkland

The good news is (if there is any . . . ) that power cords are pretty inexpensive. I ruin mine all the time and have to replace it about every six months (I don't want to talk about it. LOL!) and I get them for about $12 or $15. I know it's a hassle--and you shouldn't have to do it, but it's not the end of the world. 

You're real challenge is going to be discovering whether the battery can hold a charge if you do end up buying a power cord. Maybe best to return it under the policy @lacemaker3 cited above.

Good luck with this one. 

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I was just a little concerned about buying the cheap $20 and under Chinese knock off power cords because I am concerned that those can damage the device, but if you have been doing this all along with no problems that gives me confidence. The OEM ones seem to be $50 and up... and I am not willing to spend THAT much....

It's honestly just frustrating that this company would rather accept a return than provide me a partial refund so I can buy the appropriate charger. And believe me I am NOT the type to fish for partial refunds, but in this case I feel it would be warranted.

The thing looks practically like new with hardly any blemishes on it, most of these I"ve seen tend to be dinged, scratched or otherwise beat up so it'd be a shamed to have to pass on such an amazing specimen, especially since I take very good care of my things so I know I could preserve it going forward.

 I'll just have to wait and see when the $20 charger I ordered arrives to be sure everything works properly. I will definitely do a thorough test to see how long the battery will hold a charge.

Thanks for the tip!

[a_c_green]

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@jonathankirkland wrote: 
It's honestly just frustrating that this company would rather accept a return than provide me a partial refund so I can buy the appropriate charger. And believe me I am NOT the type to fish for partial refunds, but in this case I feel it would be warranted.

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Second that. It's unfortunate, in a way, that the unit itself is in such nice condition that you're reluctant to simply send it back and search for a better seller, but I can see where you're coming from there.

The seller is a knucklehead for claiming that the power cord is an "accessory," when in fact it's physically impossible to use the device after the on-board battery dies, and the battery itself is neither accessible nor replaceable (i.e. behind a battery door and intended for swap-out anytime, like a portable CD player, for example), so the power cord is by definition required, not an accessory. The fact that it doesn't have to be plugged into the device 24/7 does not make it optional.

Frankly, anytime I see a used device like that which is listed with absolutely no other parts beyond the unit itself, I assume that it was stolen from a Starbuck's last week, and move on to a better listing.

[jonathankirkland]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@jonathankirkland wrote: 
It's honestly just frustrating that this company would rather accept a return than provide me a partial refund so I can buy the appropriate charger. And believe me I am NOT the type to fish for partial refunds, but in this case I feel it would be warranted.

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Second that. It's unfortunate, in a way, that the unit itself is in such nice condition that you're reluctant to simply send it back and search for a better seller, but I can see where you're coming from there.

The seller is a knucklehead for claiming that the power cord is an "accessory," when in fact it's physically impossible to use the device after the on-board battery dies, and the battery itself is neither accessible nor replaceable (i.e. behind a battery door and intended for swap-out anytime, like a portable CD player, for example), so the power cord is by definition required, not an accessory. The fact that it doesn't have to be plugged into the device 24/7 does not make it optional.

Frankly, anytime I see a used device like that which is listed with absolutely no other parts beyond the unit itself, I assume that it was stolen from a Starbuck's last week, and move on to a better listing.

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That line made me choke on my lunch, thanks for that!

[retrose1]

The trick to buying on ebay is not to use the extremes when it comes to sellers. 

A zero feedback seller is a risk because they are often not that experiences with ebay policies or how to pack properly.  They think something might be in great condition and worth lots of money because it's theirs.  And if the item is a bargain, always remember the addage - if it looks too good to be true, it's probably a scam.

A high feedback seller that is listing 1000s of items doesn't have time to be making sure that their items are what they say they are, unless they have employees doing the work for them, and how well do you think a min wage employee, who probably knows nothing about the item itself, is going to describe an item?

Last Christmas I saw an item that would be perfect for a friend of mine on ebay.  I did a search and found hundreds that were repros coming in from China, others that were high priced and obviously coming in from China, and a few from casual sellers with a an average number of feedback.  I picked a reasonably (not the lowest) priced, used item from a friendly sounding seller with a few hundred feedback that had been on ebay for more than 5 years that described his item, where he had gotten it and why he was giving it up.  I popped in some batteries, wrapped it up and my friend just loves the attention he gets about it from the people that come into his office.

The definition of manufacturer is changing, a guy doing refurbishing on a grand scale, might be considered a manufacturer by ebay now.

There are plenty of small sellers in the US that are getting swept aside by buyers that feel that bigger is better OR because they are attracted to cheap.  But OP after 3 tries, I'd just go to a store.

[ymeagainlord]

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@jonathankirkland wrote:

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@jonathankirkland wrote: 
It's honestly just frustrating that this company would rather accept a return than provide me a partial refund so I can buy the appropriate charger. And believe me I am NOT the type to fish for partial refunds, but in this case I feel it would be warranted.

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Second that. It's unfortunate, in a way, that the unit itself is in such nice condition that you're reluctant to simply send it back and search for a better seller, but I can see where you're coming from there.

The seller is a knucklehead for claiming that the power cord is an "accessory," when in fact it's physically impossible to use the device after the on-board battery dies, and the battery itself is neither accessible nor replaceable (i.e. behind a battery door and intended for swap-out anytime, like a portable CD player, for example), so the power cord is by definition required, not an accessory. The fact that it doesn't have to be plugged into the device 24/7 does not make it optional.

Frankly, anytime I see a used device like that which is listed with absolutely no other parts beyond the unit itself, I assume that it was stolen from a Starbuck's last week, and move on to a better listing.

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That line made me choke on my lunch, thanks for that!

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It's true though. You see that on CL all the time. I also figure MOST people who actually OWN electronics have at kleast SOME of what it came with. JUST the device? Yeah, probably stolen.

[jason_incognito]

If you ever go to paen it, they want everything. Many won't even loan $1 without the cord.