Seller wants to return an item for product information I didn't disclose

[csmi8657]

I sold a video game console (PS4) and the seller wants to return it because they found it it doesn't play old (PS3) games. Their reason they put on the return is that the product doesn't match description/photos. For those who are into video games, it's been known for a long time that the PS4 doesn't play PS3 games, and since I'm not Sony- I feel I didn't really need to put that into the description. I did not know that's the whole reason they were going to buy it, but they probably should have done their research first. What should I say to avoid closing in the seller's favor? 

[sextons-sweet-deals]

follow up to my post. 

Buyer claims seller did not disclose information. Why didn't the buyer ask any questions????

[kabilab]

Cam,

I am currently in my 32nd year for selling video games out of my store and almost 20 yrs. on e-Bay. Mary's advice "hit the bail on the head."

Several yrs ago, I sold a regular X Box game that had not been issued on 360. The buyer filed an INAD, claiming a website stated the game would play on his unit. When it was returned and relisted, I stated in the header, conditions box AND description area that it was being sold only for regular X Box and would not play on 360.

On a related note, my customers have assured me PS3s will play on some PS4s. The difference was explained to me as a change SONY instituted; I do not recall the specifics.

[ms.rodriguez*]

People do not know. Maybe they bought it for a gift.  I did not know that the games from ps3 do not play on ps4.   You have NO choice but to accept the return.  You need to issue a return shipping label. You need to inform the buyer to please pack everything correctly and get the box ready to be returned.  Tell them that you will issue a return label. You will refund after the item is returned to you and you had a chance to inspect it.

When you relist, you have to say that the system will only play games from X.   It will not play anything else.  So yes, sometimes, you need to describe more in detail because there are so many people that do not know. Sorry.

If they open a claim, respond quickly before the buyer ends up with a full refund, your game and you get stuck with a defect and ebay fees!

[duffy4444]

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@csmi8657 wrote:

But I don't understand though. To what degree is the seller responsible for informing the buyer? It would be like if someone bought a blu-ray movie and found out it didn't work in a DVD player.

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@csmi8657:

   You also wrote in your post, "...For those who are into video games, it's been known for a long time that the PS4 doesn't play PS3 games, and since I'm not Sony- I feel I didn't really need to put that into the description. I did not know that's the whole reason they were going to buy it, but they probably should have done their research first..."

   Therein lies your problem... you don't have to be Sony. YOU, the seller, are 100% responsible for including all the information about your electronic item that a buyer should know, but maybe doesn't know. That would certainly include the important fact that a PS4 platform supposedly won't play PS3 games. That's a big elephant in the room that should have been disclosed in your listing... always assume buyers are ignorant and need their hand held.

   Way back when they were still popular, I sold HDDVDs with the disclaimer that they wouldn't play in a standard DVD player, and vice-versa. When I sell a Blu-ray disc even today, I have a similar disclaimer in bold type. And when I used to sell a Region 2 or above DVD, in bold type I had to include that it would not play in a Region 1 NTSC player without it being an international standards converter. I quickly learned this lesson well about adding a lot of details, when I received returns of opened DVDs I could no longer relist as factory-sealed. Some even had to be discarded.

    The same seller responsibility applies to you. Always assume the buyer is ignorant, especially with electronics. You need to accept the return and refund the buyer AFTER you receive the item back.

Cheers, Duffy 

[varebelrose]

". YOU, the seller, are 100% responsible for including all the information about your electronic item that a buyer should know, but maybe doesn't know. That would certainly include the important fact that a PS4 platform supposedly won't play PS3 games. That's a big elephant in the room that should have been disclosed in your listing... always assume buyers are ignorant and need their hand held."

Just to play Devil's advocate here, by that logic, shouldn't they also need to put that it doesn't play Wii, Nintendo NES, and Gameboy games? At what point does the buyer have some duty to do some legwork and research of their own?

[csmi8657]

Thank you for presenting the grand issue at hand. There is an infinite amount of information that can be included, all of which the buyer can claim was never offered. Did you know you have to pay for  an online subscription to play with friends? Did you know there's no AO rated games on the platform? Did you know the console cannot sit vertically without a standing accessory? Did you know you can't have GamePass or Mario or Halo on it? To mention every single thing the Playstation 4 can and cannot do shouldn't not only be my responsibility, it is literally impossible. You are every bit up to the task to be an informed buyer as I am a seller. Especially considering, as an above user put, that eBay has the luxury of a messaging system and the ability to ask.

I've made some peace with this since starting the topic, I'll accept a return but I'm going to consult with eBay so that the buyer pays return shipping. 

[deltilogical]

I disagree.  The buyer needs to know what is being bought.   The seller is respsonsible informing of any faults. But not for education.    We aren't manufacturers representatives.   

Unfortunately we have been forced into Trustless economy.   

[kensgiftshop]

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@csmi8657 wrote:

It's not quite the same, but I will ask eBay when I contact them just how much do they expect me to inform on part of the manufacturer? Please remember that eBay is a community predominated by reselling; things like the MPN exist for a reason and it's not really the job of the seller to inform you on every feature but rather the physical condition and how well the item operates as intended.

https://www.ebay.com/help/listings/creating-managing-listings/creating-managing-listings?id=4105

I sell a lot of electronics so your method of specifying details in every description, while ideal, is far from practical. 

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If you want it back before refunding, I wouldn't get Ebay involved.

[duffy4444]

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@varebelrose wrote:

". YOU, the seller, are 100% responsible for including all the information about your electronic item that a buyer should know, but maybe doesn't know. That would certainly include the important fact that a PS4 platform supposedly won't play PS3 games. That's a big elephant in the room that should have been disclosed in your listing... always assume buyers are ignorant and need their hand held."

Just to play Devil's advocate here, by that logic, shouldn't they also need to put that it doesn't play Wii, Nintendo NES, and Gameboy games? At what point does the buyer have some duty to do some legwork and research of their own?

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Greetings, @varebelrose !

   Nope, I referred to just "...a big elephant  in the room that should have been disclosed..." Having a PS4 platform that may not play PS3 or earlier, IS an obvious and important disclosable factor. Common sense says the other totally different brand name platforms is not necessary, such as would be worrying about a DVD/VHS conflict, for example. Of course there is a common sense limit to a need for disclosure.

   Having said that, typing out a simple sentence saying that other brands will not play would only take a few seconds to include in the listing description (as I explained with my DVD/HDDVD/Blu-ray statements).

   Of course a buyer has some common sense duty to research, but the PS3-PS4 question rises to a high enough level to be a seller's responsibility to take a few seconds to address in a CYA fashion and to prevent what happened to the OP and to his buyer.

   This is a justifiable reason for the buyer to return the item for refund. It won't make any difference anyhow, as the buyer will be refunded one way or another. But it could have and should have been avoided upfront by the seller, IMHO.

Cheers, Duffy

[kensgiftshop]

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@csmi8657 wrote:

 I'll accept a return but I'm going to consult with eBay so that the buyer pays return shipping. 

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That's not going to happen.

If you get Ebay involved, you might not even get the item back before refunding.

Just accept the return and provide a shipping label.

Once the item is returned, buyer has been refunded and the case closed, then you can complain to Ebay all you want.

[zoda99]

@duffy4444said:

Having said that, typing out a simple sentence saying that other brands will not play would only take a few seconds to include in the listing description (as I explained with my DVD/HDDVD/Blu-ray statements).

PS3 games are Sony brand as well. Saying that other brands of games won't play on the PS4 would not have made any difference to the outcome of this sale.

[duffy4444]

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@zoda99 wrote:

PS3 games are Sony brand as well. Saying that other brands of games won't play on the PS4 would not have made any difference to the outcome of this sale.

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  @zoda99 : 

    Perhaps I could have said "brands other than Sony"... but use of the name Sony was obviously not a part of the issue to either the buyer or seller. Instead, the PS3-PS4 situation was understandably  not obvious to the buyer - hence this whole can of worms that could have been addressed in the seller's listing description and probably avoided in the first place. That was my whole point.

   I won't address anything more on this post. I have other things to do, like listing.

Cheers, Duffy

[zoda99]

Said:

Perhaps I could have said "brands other than Sony"

It wouldn't have been accurate to say that games by brands other than Sony won't work either. I have a video game called Who Wants To Be A Millionaire that plays on the PlayStation 4, however isn't developed, branded or published by Sony. Your suggested product specifics would likely only confuse potential customers further rather than making anything more clear.

[albertabrightalberta]

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@csmi8657 wrote:

I've made some peace with this since starting the topic, I'll accept a return but I'm going to consult with eBay so that the buyer pays return shipping. 

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That's not going to happen. The buyer opened NAD so there's no option to have the buyer pay return shipping. Additionally, as you indicated in the title of this thread, the reason for the return is for something that YOU didn't disclose. (No one denies that it's next to impossible to disclose everything but IMO, the buyer's complaint is valid.)

[kabilab]

csmi, while I have never sold a game system on e-Bay, I do sell them in my store and I have sold the literal games on the Internet. It is my experience that SOME PS3s will play on a some PS4s.

I have only encountered a situation similar to yours' once. The buyer of an XBOX game had read on a non-Microsoft site that

his  purchase would play on a 360 system. When it did not, I was out the expense of 2 mailings. Thereafter, I added in the description box that those games were sold strictly as regular XBOX. After the introduction of XB ONE, I sell 360s with a similar warning.