Seller Protection

[hardware0608]

My feedback score was 100% until I ran into a horrible buyer.

He purchased gaskets that were silver in color and were listed as copper gaskets.  His purchase was around $20.  He left me negative feedback stating that the gaskets were aluminum not copper.  I spoke to him over the phone, thinking we would be able resolve the issue and I would be able to offer a refund to please him but he was argumentative and was referring to me as "look lady" and "listen lady."  I told him that I have 100% on feedback to let him know that I go out of my way to please my buyers and he said "not anymore."  I'm not sure if he was talking down to me because I am a woman but it sure felt like it as he was referring to me as "lady" and telling me that I need to know what I am listing before I post items on eBay and that, if the gasket is silver, it means it is aluminum.  I am still failing to understand why he purchased the gaskets, seeing that they were silver in all pictures provided in the listing, if he felt that all copper is only goldish in color.  Also, I don't understand why he didn't message me or request a refund like most buyers do if there is an issue, but, yet, kept $20 worth of gaskets and left negative feedback.  This gave me no opportunity to resolve his issues prior to him leaving negative feedback.

I have been an eBay seller for 17 years and have never run across this situation nor have I ever been abused by a buyer is such a manner.  I have contacted eBay several times and have talked to 3 eBay agents to try to appeal the negative feedback but they are saying they have to find something that shows that the buyer violated eBay's policies so, I suppose, that is why it has been a long wait.  Every agent I have spoken to tells me to wait 3 to 4 business days, but, nothing has changed so far.  The 3rd eBay agent, that I spoke with today, told me to try messaging the buyer and try to resolve the issue again to see if I can get him to retract the negative feedback.  I knew I was wasting my time, but I tried anyway.  I told the buyer I would refund him and he could keep the parts but to please retract the negative feedback.  Well, he said if I don't leave him alone, he would report me to eBay for harassment.  Welp, I tried! So, I have learned that a buyer can purchase an item from you and leave negative feedback by merely being in opposition to what you described in your description without attempting to return it or without contacting you to give you an opportunity to fix whatever the issue is to please them.  I will be looking at that (1) negative feedback as a thorn in my side for a year...so unfair!

Since buyers have "buyer protection" and sellers are to provide excellent customer service, why are buyer's allowed to abuse sellers in this manner by screwing up all the work we do to keep our feedback score excellent and all they need to do is automatically leave negative feedback without any communication with the seller and it doesn't even matter that their reason for leaving the negative feedback is untrue?

[bro.us.5iedd7mtn]

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@tobaccocardyahoo wrote:

You made an error in your description. The buyer did not know what they were going to receive based on the whole of your description.

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How so? The pictures on the listing clearly show silver-color gaskets. The buyer received exactly what they ordered. The "whole" of the description includes photos. Contrary to popular belief, the buyer is not always right. 

[luckythewinner]

My feedback score was 100% until I ran into a horrible buyer.

Your feedback was 100% until you sold copper gaskets and sent aluminum ones. 

he was argumentative

Being argumentative does not make his feedback removeable. 

was referring to me as "look lady" and "listen lady"

Referring to you as "lady" does not make his feedback removeable. 

I told him that I have 100% on feedback 

Having 100% feedback does not make his feedback removeable. 

I am still failing to understand why he purchased the gaskets

He purchased the gaskets because your listing claimed they were copper. 

I don't understand why he didn't message me or request a refund 

Not messaging or requesting a refund does not make his feedback removeable. 

This gave me no opportunity to resolve his issues prior to him leaving negative feedback

Buyers are not required to give you an opportunity to resolve an issue before leaving feedback. 

I have been an eBay seller for 17 years and have never run across this situation 

The fact that you have never run across this does not make his feedback removeable. 

 I have contacted eBay several times and have talked to 3 eBay agents to try to appeal the negative feedback 

There is nothing to appeal. The item you sent did not match your description, and he was unhappy about that. 

Every agent I have spoken to tells me to wait 3 to 4 business days, but, nothing has changed so far.

That is because his feedback is not removeable. 

I told the buyer I would refund him and he could keep the parts but to please retract the negative feedback

Trying to buy your way out of a negative is a policy violation. He could report you for that. 

I have learned that a buyer can purchase an item from you and leave negative feedback by merely being in opposition to what you described in your description without attempting to return it or without contacting you to give you an opportunity to fix whatever the issue is to please them.

A simple reading of eBay feedback policy could have told you that. 

why are buyer's allowed to abuse sellers in this manner 

You were not abused. You got a negative because you sent the wrong item and wasted his time. 

by screwing up all the work we do to keep our feedback score excellent 

You screwed up your own feedback because you sent the wrong item and wasted his time. 

 it doesn't even matter that their reason for leaving the negative feedback is untrue?

What was untrue about his feedback? Were the gaskets you sent made of copper?

[bro.us.5iedd7mtn]

If you have a few extra of these gaskets and don't mind wasting one or two, can you try rubbing it with some sandpaper to see if a different base metal shows up underneath? 

If it stays a white color, it is not copper and may be aluminum or some other metal. If you see a copper color, then they are are just silver-plated, meaning you sold exactly what you described and the buyer is wrong.

I would recommend updating the listing accordingly based on your results either way - if you mention that they are silver-plated it will head off any more uninformed complaints. Otherwise change the metal in the listing.

[pickapaper]

@bro.us.5iedd7mtn wrote:  "

Absolutely disagree with everyone else here. The pictures on the listing are part of the description. The pictures clearly show white metal colored gaskets. The buyer cannot say that the item is not as described.

The pictures are contradictory to the listing title.  The pictures show white metal but the title says "copper" and copper is orangy colored.  That is what the buyer expected, copper.

Metal can be plated, and the fact that they are silver colored does not necessarily mean that they are not brass. At no point in your listing did you specify that they are brass-colored.

BRASS has never entered into this listing or thread.  If the gaskets were "white metal" plating over copper, the listing should specifically say this.  

You should not have called the buyer - never contact a buyer/seller outside of official eBay channels, but I don't think you're wrong here in being frustrated. Contact eBay support by phone and tell them that the item is as described, and the buyer needs to prove that the gaskets are not in fact brass. The color is not enough.

It is well established that contacting eBay support by phone is useless.  Telephone support people tell eBayers what they want to hear rather than the facts just to get them off the phone.  Also, Buyers do not have to prove anything.   Because of eBay's Money Back Guarantee, in a NAD claim, eBay will always side with the buyer.  

[kensgiftshop]

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@bro.us.5iedd7mtn wrote:

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@tobaccocardyahoo wrote:

You made an error in your description. The buyer did not know what they were going to receive based on the whole of your description.

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How so? The pictures on the listing clearly show silver-color gaskets. The buyer received exactly what they ordered. The "whole" of the description includes photos. Contrary to popular belief, the buyer is not always right. 

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The photos and description should match, which they don't.

Listing states in 3 places, they are copper, not silver colored.

[bro.us.5iedd7mtn]

Copper is a metal, not a color. If they received silver-plated COPPER gaskets, they received exactly what they ordered. Copper is listed as the material, not the color. End of story.

It seems like a lot of people in this thread are unfamiliar with the concept of plating a base metal with a thin coat of a different metal. Do you all think that your gold plated costume jewelry is pure gold? I hope you haven't sold any of it...

[bro.us.5iedd7mtn]

Yes, I made a typo. I meant copper when I said brass.

Copper can be plated in different metals, including silver and gold. I included a link in the post you quoted of silver-plated copper gaskets. They are copper gaskets. 

As for support, depends on who you get. I have had success with phone agents. Although in my case, I kept all communication on eBay and the agent was able to see exactly what was said and that the buyer was in the wrong.

This seller should never ever have contacted the buyer off the platform, and I agree that they should not have made it seem like they were offering a refund contingent on withdrawal of the feedback. I don't agree that the buyer was right.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

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@bro.us.5iedd7mtn wrote:

Absolutely disagree with everyone else here. The pictures on the listing are part of the description. The pictures clearly show white metal colored gaskets. The buyer cannot say that the item is not as described.

That is not how Ebay interprets it.

Any ambiguity or inconsistency in the listing, real or imagined, is NOT AS DESCRIBED if the buyer claims that to be the case.

And it is not the case when Ebay decides not to remove negative FB.

[12345jamesstamps]

Description states 'copper'.

It's an honest seller mistake.

But it was only a 20 buck purchase. 

'spoke to him over the phone'...just me but I would never call someone over a 20 buck purchase.

I would have refund immediately ...and then ask for a revision...

No phone calls or emails to buyer other than sending the revision.

Too much work into a 20 dollar sale.

And I probably would not have left any response to his feedback other than an apology and state refund given.

[itsjustasprain]

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@hardware0608 wrote:

I'm not sure if he was talking down to me because I am a woman but it sure felt like it as he was referring to me as "lady" and telling me that I need to know what I am listing before I post items on eBay and that, if the gasket is silver, it means it is aluminum.  I am still failing to understand why he purchased the gaskets, seeing that they were silver in all pictures provided in the listing, if he felt that all copper is only goldish in color.

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Your listing states that you have numerous lots available, so I assume you have an original manufacturer's package somewhere...? What does that package say about the washers' composition?

Your reply to the Negative feedback states 'According to the technical characteristics offered under aviation standards, AN900 series gaskets have soft fillers with copper covers.' and yet those do not have copper covers despite the description... perhaps the copper is under an aluminum coating...? The point is that you should be able to put the manufacturer details into your listing and the photos right now do not seem to match the listing title or description. (Also - these should be labeled as 'crush' washers and not 'crushed' washers.)

If I Google 'an900-24 gasket' I get a multitude of copper or copper/asbestos listings but I do not see aluminum versions mentioned. Is it possible that these aluminum crush washers (if that is what they are) are used only on non-aviation applications?

[aeparts1]

You can tell if they are copper or aluminum washers by the weight. An aluminum washer like that will have next to no weight, a copper washer will have a little weight to it.

[chapeau-noir]

The only response you needed for that neg was something like According to the technical characteristics offered under aviation standards, AN900 series gaskets have soft fillers with copper covers. I will clarify this better on future listing. Arguing with and complaining about the buyer does nothing but make the seller look bad  that horse is already out of  the barn and you want future buyers to know that you stand behind your products and service.

[hardware0608]

I called the buyer to understand why he felt the gaskets were aluminum and not copper and to see if I could resolve his issue in hopes of him removing the negative feedback, not to tell him about my feedback score.

[hardware0608]

I sold these items several times and it was never reported that these items were anything other than copper. At this point, what difference does it make, the buyer could have stated that they were rubber or plastic and left a negative feedback and there is nothing I could do about it!

[buyselljack2016]

I told him that I have 100% on feedback