Seller Protection

[robby752]

Seller Protection

Hi guys, I recently started selling vintage posters that I inherited from my grandfather. Most are prints or vintage lithographs of advertisements for traveling as he owned a travel agency for 50 years (1954-2004). I have had no problems until now. I ship using the usps priority mail tube boxes and bubble wrap and have not had any issues at all shipping from where I live in Kansas to New York, California, or even as far as Hawaii.

Now I shipped two posters to one buyer who has good ratings on two separate orders for two worth about $50 each. He has messaged me the yesterday claiming the item was damaged and my shipping practices are wrong. He included pictures of a box that looks completely stomped on and mentioned that the year was incorrect yet my listing pictures clearly identified the date on the poster. 

So naturally I called ebay support because it seems quite strange that I haven't had any issues and suddenly the box is destroyed and the items not as described but he has not filed a claim. 

This is where it gets weirder:

Today (day 2) the second poster arrives and he has sent no pictures yet but claims his wife text messaged him the box is even more destroyed than the first. So that is either one horrible coincidence or the postal service employee must be damaging them. Aren't all packages shipped usps priority inspected by the post office before they are delivered or accepted?

Since it is saturday and usps was closed when I got the message, I had to use their contact us form to say the issue.

Then I called paypal to tell them I might have issues with those two transactions if I have to protect myself in some way. But the customer service at paypal did not understand what I was saying.

I am not sure where my safety net is here because if he does file a claim, and wins (since I don't exactly know how to go about this), then I will end up losing the money and have to pay for return shipping and even then might get a completely damaged poster. 

Otherwise, everything else has been okay and usps just delivered to my house this morning another 100 of their special poster (tube) boxes. So I certainly need some advice before I send another because I have read some horror stories. Also I just realized usps priority insurance really only supports $50 in damage (which is fine for this but I will need to put insurance on the future ones I send since the value is much more).

Thoughts? 

[buyselljack2016]

I generally sell items that are low cost, and generally not a scammer item. I do get some returns where buyers do not bother to read, do not look at photos, or are just incompetent resulting in an occasional return.

Returns annoy me for a bit, but I get over it. Will take longer to get over it now that PP will be keeping their fees, but then again my non MP selling account is so slow I likely won't have a return.

I understand the dynamics of a package traveling in a mail sack, so damage would be a rarity.

I still have a bit of apprehension with the more costly items, but things have been going well enough.

[robby752]

Kind of feels like its a gamble. It seems that I am the only one on the thread who put their faith in ebay to protect things. It is hard to sway my opinion since I have not even been asked for a return but just read dozens of horror stories. I guess the only way to be safe now days might be to keep everything below $50. But then you lose out on the excitement of the auctioning process. 

Oh well, until I get a dreaded message I am going to trust in the customer service department and if it turns I am wrong doing that I will have learned a big lesson. For now, with my remaining items that I cannot stop, I am going to message the winners so there is a record that we had a meeting of the minds and get extra insurance at usps. Or hopefully he just requests a return and I will hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Thanks for your insights. 

[bonjourami]

Why would you message a buyer after the sale?

[buyselljack2016 · Accepted solution]

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@robby752 wrote:

Kind of feels like its a gamble. It seems that I am the only one on the thread who put their faith in ebay to protect things. It is hard to sway my opinion since I have not even been asked for a return but just read dozens of horror stories. I guess the only way to be safe now days might be to keep everything below $50. But then you lose out on the excitement of the auctioning process. 

Oh well, until I get a dreaded message I am going to trust in the customer service department and if it turns I am wrong doing that I will have learned a big lesson. For now, with my remaining items that I cannot stop, I am going to message the winners so there is a record that we had a meeting of the minds and get extra insurance at usps. Or hopefully he just requests a return and I will hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Thanks for your insights. 

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As another posted,  most sales go well. Just those with problems post here. Millions of sales go well.

Seller protections are minimal. eBay's priority is to keep buyers happy.

" a record of the meeting of the minds" is also meaningless in a dispute, but it will help to assure that you and the buyer are at least on the same page before shipping.

[robby752]

To confirm they understood the nature and quality of the item. 

To act in good-faith since the items are from the 20th century and to provide good customer service to them. Why would you consider that bad? I don't want to take anyones money by misunderstanding antique or vintage items. 

If it was an iPhone or something, I would not. A Lithograph from an industry that no longer exists, many people might not do their research. I can't remember the last time I saw a travel agency since our family's closed theirs. 

[geobra-5125]

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@robby752 wrote:

No my information was correct we may have just had a misunderstanding. Yes I have been using those usps priority as recommended. I just sold another poster and this time before sending I just confirmed with the buyer he understood what he purchased on the chance we did not have a meeting of minds. The way I have been doing most of them is with long hours of research if I can't find a previously sold item on ebay and press sell similar. 

But it sounds like I have a lot to think about now moving forward. Ebay is going to lose a lot of potential money from my listings in the end and I don't have an opinion on if I am being scammed or if the buyer is genuine. I like to think the best in people and accept to be let down every once in a while. But this is different since it is online. Thank you for your detailed post. I will have to message each auction winner before selling anymore items as they end throughout the week. The last thing I want to do is assume ebay would not assist, and of course I offer a 30 day return as recommended by ebay. 

Thank you again

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eBay won't assist.

That's just the cold truth.

I've shipped in the triangle mailers a few times. I sawed paint stir sticks down then glued them in at both ends and the middle of the box to re-inforce.

For the round ones I'd think about using steel banding strips.

[robby752]

That is a really good idea and inexpensive to do too.

[buyselljack2016]

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@robby752 wrote:

To confirm they understood the nature and quality of the item. 

To act in good-faith since the items are from the 20th century and to provide good customer service to them. Why would you consider that bad? I don't want to take anyones money by misunderstanding antique or vintage items. 

If it was an iPhone or something, I would not. A Lithograph from an industry that no longer exists, many people might not do their research. I can't remember the last time I saw a travel agency since our family's closed theirs. 

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I only looked at one of your ended listings ( a litho), so this may not be for all listings, but what I did find is that your description was minimal.

The listing pretty much left it up to the buyer to know what they were purchasing just by looking at the photo, and title. 

One reason I looked was to figure out what size packaging you might need to ship in such as a 12" tube, 18" tube, 24" tube...................   but did not notice anything even telling how big the  listed item was.

[buyselljack2016]

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@buyselljack2016 wrote:

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@robby752 wrote:

To confirm they understood the nature and quality of the item. 

To act in good-faith since the items are from the 20th century and to provide good customer service to them. Why would you consider that bad? I don't want to take anyones money by misunderstanding antique or vintage items. 

If it was an iPhone or something, I would not. A Lithograph from an industry that no longer exists, many people might not do their research. I can't remember the last time I saw a travel agency since our family's closed theirs. 

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I only looked at one of your ended listings ( a litho), so this may not be for all listings, but what I did find is that your description was minimal.

The listing pretty much left it up to the buyer to know what they were purchasing just by looking at the photo, and title. 

One reason I looked was to figure out what size packaging you might need to ship in such as a 12" tube, 18" tube, 24" tube...................   but did not notice anything even telling how big the  listed item was.

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Was a poster, not a litho   Oh, it was a litho. Had to go to the last photo, and hover to see that:)

[robby752]

Yeah the lithographs aren't exactly a category alongside aviation industry. But the buyer just sent me pictures of both boxes destroyed. No pics of the Lithographs. I called ebay who told me (since I want them back) to ask him to file a claim for the damage done by the post office but also have him send pics of the damage done to the pieces to show usps. And NOT to refund until it goes through their process or theres no protection. 

Buyer wants a "refund and will just keep them or I can pay him to ship them back" ebay said that is not the right way to do it at all. File a claim for damage, pay for an automatic shipping label for him to send in, and when they get back inspect them and contact usps and ebay regarding a the rest (insurance claim from usps and that the litho's arrive) I explained to the customer support center just now that these are antique lithographs 50 yrs old and not like modern poster papers. Seems that I will have to change my shipping practices and explain lithographs in more detail. Thanks for contributing. I am learning a LOT about this. 

[robby752]

both are part of this collection and the same reference was given to the buyer so I am going to need them back even if I have to repair them.

[fashunu4eeuh]

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@robby752 wrote:

Yeah the lithographs aren't exactly a category alongside aviation industry. But the buyer just sent me pictures of both boxes destroyed. No pics of the Lithographs. I called ebay who told me (since I want them back) to ask him to file a claim for the damage done by the post office but also have him send pics of the damage done to the pieces to show usps. And NOT to refund until it goes through their process or theres no protection. 

Buyer wants a "refund and will just keep them or I can pay him to ship them back" ebay said that is not the right way to do it at all. File a claim for damage, pay for an automatic shipping label for him to send in, and when they get back inspect them and contact usps and ebay regarding a the rest (insurance claim from usps and that the litho's arrive) I explained to the customer support center just now that these are antique lithographs 50 yrs old and not like modern poster papers. Seems that I will have to change my shipping practices and explain lithographs in more detail. Thanks for contributing. I am learning a LOT about this. 

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Hi @robby752 I just wanted to clarify that the buyer does not file the insurance claim with USPS, the seller does.  And if you are going to file a claim, you do not want the item shipped back to you. 

Per USPS instruction the item cannot be re-mailed… re-posting an item will invalidate the claim. The PO doesn't usually ask for it, but the item needs to be available for inspection by the USPS should they desire to do so. The recipient should keep the mailing box and all packing as well as the item.

The procedure to follow is this: File the insurance claim online immediately. Ask the buyer to provide pictures of the damaged goods and packaging for your claim. (The customer is not required to provide this by eBay. You are basically asking the buyer for a courtesy.) If they do not, still proceed with the claim, without the pictures. Go ahead and refund the buyer in full, and then ask them to hold onto the box, packaging and the item for 30 days in case the USPS wishes to inspect the item. Most people are more than happy to help, especially for expensive items. The buyer should never be expected to wait for the insurance payout to the seller before he gets a refund. (eBay does not sanction asking the buyer to wait for a refund or, for that matter, asking buyers to file claims on their own.) So you have made the buyer whole, the USPS makes you whole, and then everyone is properly compensated for the damage. The buyer keeps the items.

Here is the link to filing a claim with the USPS:

https://about.usps.com/publications/pub122/pub122_v07_revision_092016_007.htm

[robby752]

Thanks for the info and link. Makes sense

[slippinjimmy]

@robby752

Late to this thread, I sell a few posters and usually fairly valuable ones. I would never use those Priority triangular mailers. I know that many people use them successfully but I only use proper mailing tubes, not necessarily the heaviest duty versions but not the cheapest ones either.

Like these:

https://www.uline.com/BL_3653/Kraft-Tubes

They don't weigh much so even though they cost money unlike the USPS ones they almost always ship First Class (depends on the poster size and what length of tube is needed) and the savings there more than pay for the cost of the tubes.

If you have some high value items maybe splurge and use the heavy duty versions, they would likely ship Priority (over 1lb) and do cost a couple of bucks each but if it's a $400+ poster like your KLM then the extra cost isn't really an issue.

[robby752]

Perfect! Well I am definitely less knowledgable on the shipping/selling market than I thought. I actually had those on auction and let 2 of them go for under $100 which I should never have done such a low price. 

But U-Line appears to be much better than anything else. Do you or anybody reading this know anything about these poly-mailers? Would you trust something of the sort with antique books from the 19th century? I only inherited rare items and I realize my keywords and descriptions are short. I should probably get the lithograph/posters figured out before I move forward with the other items. But it looks like poly bags (sp?) I can pack like crazy with maybe peanuts and stuff to protect other items I am going to list.

Thanks