Seller Protection

[robby752]

Seller Protection

Hi guys, I recently started selling vintage posters that I inherited from my grandfather. Most are prints or vintage lithographs of advertisements for traveling as he owned a travel agency for 50 years (1954-2004). I have had no problems until now. I ship using the usps priority mail tube boxes and bubble wrap and have not had any issues at all shipping from where I live in Kansas to New York, California, or even as far as Hawaii.

Now I shipped two posters to one buyer who has good ratings on two separate orders for two worth about $50 each. He has messaged me the yesterday claiming the item was damaged and my shipping practices are wrong. He included pictures of a box that looks completely stomped on and mentioned that the year was incorrect yet my listing pictures clearly identified the date on the poster. 

So naturally I called ebay support because it seems quite strange that I haven't had any issues and suddenly the box is destroyed and the items not as described but he has not filed a claim. 

This is where it gets weirder:

Today (day 2) the second poster arrives and he has sent no pictures yet but claims his wife text messaged him the box is even more destroyed than the first. So that is either one horrible coincidence or the postal service employee must be damaging them. Aren't all packages shipped usps priority inspected by the post office before they are delivered or accepted?

Since it is saturday and usps was closed when I got the message, I had to use their contact us form to say the issue.

Then I called paypal to tell them I might have issues with those two transactions if I have to protect myself in some way. But the customer service at paypal did not understand what I was saying.

I am not sure where my safety net is here because if he does file a claim, and wins (since I don't exactly know how to go about this), then I will end up losing the money and have to pay for return shipping and even then might get a completely damaged poster. 

Otherwise, everything else has been okay and usps just delivered to my house this morning another 100 of their special poster (tube) boxes. So I certainly need some advice before I send another because I have read some horror stories. Also I just realized usps priority insurance really only supports $50 in damage (which is fine for this but I will need to put insurance on the future ones I send since the value is much more).

Thoughts? 

[loveyourimagination49]

What is the buyer asking for?
I wouldn’t do anything until they open a request.
Don’t let one buyer deter you from selling.

[lamber9347]

Let me start with I'm very sorry this happened. It sucks to lose out on a sale and because these belonged to your grandfather it must sting a tad more. Again, I'm sorry. 

I also use those priority shipping tubes and yes they can get damaged. Basically anything can happen to a package once it leaves your hands. That's a chance one takes when selling online. Happening twice to two separate packages is either extremely unlucky, mail carrier has it out for the buyer, or a scam. 

I suspect this is a scam and unfortunately you will lose this. You must abide by the eBay MBG so if your buyer does open a case then you will have to refund. They have sent you photos of a damaged box, they don't have to prove it arrived that way, eBay will side with them. Nothing you can do about that. If you're lucky they will return your posters, damaged or not. Many times a scammer will ship back something else entirely though....

You're going to have to think hard about if you want to continue to sell these posters online. You've been lucky so far and everyone gets a return at some point. You can add this seller to your BBL so that they cannot purchase from you again and think positively that this won't occur again. Yes take out more insurance for next time as well but just realize this is one of the perils of online selling. It happens to all of us at some point.

Best of luck to you....

[robby752]

Yes that is my worst fear. I have faith in ebay and their customer service team I talked with to protect me. Going forward I will have doubts until this is resolved.

Thank you for understanding and being compassionate to this.

[robby752]

The buyer has not even submitted a claim or asked for a refund. I have only been told they were both ruined via shipping and that they misunderstood the details of the description because each of these were made before the internet. He mentioned the paper was shiny but what he did not understand is that back then this was the printing method as a lithograph which are all shiny. He also mentioned the date was wrong but the images clearly show the company who made them printed 71 on them.

Maybe I should not sell expensive items anymore. But it will be impossible to argue with any claim related to description as there is no way to research these outside of the bigger sites who sell them for 250-400 each. But that is because it was all done before the internet. Which ironically is exactly what made the travel agencies close down. Now I am hoping I don't have the same fate from putting trust on the internet. 

Thank you for your support.

[fashunu4eeuh]

Hi, it is possible for packages to get damaged in transit. So you are using the three-sided long triangular box to send your posters? How many have you sent so far without issue? So far your buyer has only contacted you and has not opened a Not As Described case, so i wouldn't jump to any conclusions about his trustworthiness yet. Did he also send pictures of the poster damage, or just the box?

As an eBay seller, there are very few seller protections. It is up to each seller to look out for his interests because eBay has the buyer's back, not yours. Your best course of action is to reply to your customer with your regrets for any trouble and that you intend to refund in full. You need to decide if you want damaged goods returned to you. If you do, then inform the customer that a prepaid shipping label will be provided and to return for refund. If you don't, then simply refund in full and he keeps the merchandise. 

Whether or not your buyer is being truthful is beside the point at this stage of the game. If he invokes the Money Back Guarantee, you will be forced to refund by eBay if you do not resolve the issue without involving them. It is nearly impossible to fight a return because of the way eBay manages their return policy. Basically, the customer is always right. To offset your risk, buy shipping insurance to cover the rare incidence of damage. If you haven't shipped many posters in this way, you definitely also need to assess your shipping practices, which sounds like you are already on top of. I would suggest, however, to ship using an actual cylindrical tube and not the three-sided box. There is a much greater chance of the box getting crushed than a tube. 

Read up on policy information for the eBay Money Back Guarantee as well as the PayPal Buyer Protection program and know what your liability is before selling more goods. The only way to deal with online selling risk is to know what you are expected to do on the platforms you sell on. The time to address your risk tolerance is before you list an item. Most buyers are honest, that has been my experience selling over the last 10+ years. Expect the best and prepare for the worst. That way you are covered when encountering an issue. 

PS--If you put incorrect information in the description but showed the correct info in the pictures, the buyer is within his rights to complain that an item is not as described. Sellers must be vigilant in putting only the correct info into their listing. 

[buyselljack2016]

The Priority triangular tubes can be damaged. When I use them now(which is rare) i reinforce them to protect the contents when needed.

I had this delivered with no marking what soever  by the employees working that day.

[robby752]

Wow so how did you resolve it? I reinforce mine but not with steel plating lol

[nj18roo]

I would ask the buyer for picture of boxes and items so you can put in claim with usps since priority mail is automatically insured up to $50.  

Ask the buyer to retain the boxes since the PO can ask to see them.

Good luck with this.

[buyselljack2016]

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@robby752 wrote:

Wow so how did you resolve it? I reinforce mine but not with steel plating lol

---

Due to the nature of the item shipped in that package, it was not damaged.

Had it been damaged, with no markings by the USPS employees, I would have been whistling in the wind.

[robby752]

No my information was correct we may have just had a misunderstanding. Yes I have been using those usps priority as recommended. I just sold another poster and this time before sending I just confirmed with the buyer he understood what he purchased on the chance we did not have a meeting of minds. The way I have been doing most of them is with long hours of research if I can't find a previously sold item on ebay and press sell similar. 

But it sounds like I have a lot to think about now moving forward. Ebay is going to lose a lot of potential money from my listings in the end and I don't have an opinion on if I am being scammed or if the buyer is genuine. I like to think the best in people and accept to be let down every once in a while. But this is different since it is online. Thank you for your detailed post. I will have to message each auction winner before selling anymore items as they end throughout the week. The last thing I want to do is assume ebay would not assist, and of course I offer a 30 day return as recommended by ebay. 

Thank you again

[robby752]

Seems like the general consensus of the community so far is that ebay isn't interested in protecting the buyers that generate for them. I don't understand that concept and being able to operate a business that way. May I ask why everyone still sells if there is this much certainty that both usps and ebay are being rumored as a company without heart? I know that is true for amazon- but ebay supports the buyers. I am going to hold onto faith and let my auctions end and hope I didn't lose my grandpas advertisements and my excitement in selling. 

I did not realize paypal would even issue a refund long after it was completed on ebay as I remember signing up a long time ago they were owned together. Seems I have not kept up with the changes. 

[robby752]

O.K. Yeah the post office will want pictures for proof and I imagine so will ebay to compare and then so will paypal if it goes that far. 

[loveyourimagination49]

You don’t need to add insurance over the $50 amount. Just set that money aside. Some call it cookie jar insurance. Every now and then you may come across a bad transaction.
Most transactions come with ease.
Good Luck

[bonjourami]

You will hear a lot of horror stories on the boards..thats what the boards are for, the majority of sales here go off without a hitch. Ive been selling here for twenty years, and have never had a problem like you describe. Dont let it get you down or discourage you.As the others suggested, wait and see if this buyer files a case. Ebay and PP will always be in favor of the buyer..thats just the way it is. I dont think any big corporations have a 'heart'..but good luck to you.